The Curious Musician Interview: Eric Dover

Greetings and welcome to The Curious Musician! This is a space where we will explore creativity and curiosity by interviewing a host of interesting and notable people for chewy conversations and some great concert stories too. 

In today's episode I am joined by Eric Dover, a multi-talented artist who captivates audiences worldwide. He his known for playing guitar and singing, most notably with Jellyfish, Slash's Snakepit, Imperial Drag, and Alice Cooper. His solo project Sextus is a fantastic explosion of his musical imagination unexpurgated by "current" trends or fads. Dover is a true original and always delivers 100% to his work. Enjoy the episode and stay tuned for more! Find me on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. Thanks for tuning in!  - Robbie Gennet

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

All right, I am here with Eric Dover. Eric and I met in uh I played with your band Sextus for a brief moment. And um I have been aware of you and uh your history with uh Jellyfish and Imperial Drag and Alice Cooper slashes Snake Pit. So um, you know, you kind of had that rock star cache of uh your reputation, but um I found you to be such an incredible creative person, and I really appreciate you joining me because I want to discuss a little bit about um, you know, what makes you tick. Um, I know you had a little bit of a musical journey before um Jellyfish, and um I saw there was a band called Love Bang and another band called The Extras. Um what kind of music were those bands, and what was your idea of your career at that moment when you were in those bands and kind of coming into your own?

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Uh well, during the time of those two bands, it was all just pure struggle and trying to find out where you fit in the world. It was still quite early in the game for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Um in terms of Love Bang, that was something that was uh truly a creative musical project. The extras not so much. Um that was more of a uh a working kind of band. So that it wasn't really an original thing. But Love Bang was uh some friends of mine from college that we grew up together and uh started writing songs because you know we were in the music department.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

Um and a friend of ours had got uh a gig at Ardent Studios in Memphis as an engineer. So on the uh the downtime, which was usually like 2 a.m. or something like that in the morning, right? Uh we were able to go in and record songs, and we eventually got a production deal with Ardent Studios uh out of it. And that was uh I think the first time that any kind of uh creativity had blossomed for any of us in the uh in at least in the recording sense, because it was a a state-of-the-art studio, you know.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Did you have kind of a spirit a spirit animal band or style that you guys were pursuing at that point?

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Well, it's funny enough because I obviously I wound up joining jellyfish, but we were roughly into the same kind of things, uh uh you know, just cleverly written pop songs, you know. We were into squeeze and and split ends, and of course the Beatles, and um so you know, the the songs, if you go back and listen to them, they're actually you know, I I I still stand behind them. Um we had a great collaboration and a and a great friendship, you know, and some great songs came out of it. But um you know, Ardent Studios was also where Led Zeppelin III part of that was recorded, and uh Big Star. I'm not sure if you're familiar, but um so there was a great uh legacy already in those walls, you know. Um I think I bumped into Greg Allman one day in the in the lounge and nice hung out and drank beer with Dickie Betts and Z Z Top used to be in there all the time. That's where they did the Eliminator record.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

So it was a really musically fruitful and exciting time.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

So tell me, take me back to when you were a child and you were discovering music, and you were discovering that you not just enjoyed music, but you'd like to make it. What would have been some songs early on that you had you first had memorized, or that the lyrics were first, you know, ingrained in your brain, where your your parents might have turned and said, Oh, this kid's got some you know musical memory going on up there.

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Well, I remember uh when I was six years old. I mean, I'd been listening to music since the time I was a toddler, you know. It was yeah, it was mom and dad's records, it was Neil Diamond live at the Troubadour and Engelbert Humperdink and Tom Jones, and but I had uh I have a an older sister, so she would buy 45s. So at about that time I was listening to Let It Be and Um Hare, the musical, yeah. Um and Alice Cooper and all this other stuff. But the first record that I actually asked my parents for is that I want this for Christmas was probably um Bob Dylan um uh knocking on Heaven's door. I mean, to me when I first heard that Well, how'd you know that to even want it?

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Where did it come to you?

SPEAKER_04 4:57

I listened to the radio and I asked my sister, I think. Um and I would hear it on the on the radio, and it and even though I was too young to really fully grasp uh the lyrics altogether, I knew it was a sad number, you know, and it made me a little bit weepy and it gave me this emotional feeling. Uh and then so they got that record for me. They also bought me The Streak by Ray Stevens.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Great. Fastest thing on TV.

SPEAKER_04 5:26

You know. So um, but that that was the first ones I consciously remember going, Hey, I would like to have those records, please, you know.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Yeah. What other songs from from there in your childhood do you remember as being sad or wistful songs that gave you that emotion, even though you couldn't put your the your finger on what it was that made you feel like, wow, there's something deeper going on here.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Uh Don McClain, American Pie, which uh we used to spin that one all the time. And that was a you know, that took some commitment because the song was so long, it occupied both sides of the 45. So you had to flip it over and listen to the other bit. But you know, those songs and in like Cat Stevens, I remember really being into that, and Jim Croce and uh singer songwriters from that era.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Um did you ever were you ever brought to tears by a song? Maybe not early, but maybe later.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

Uh yeah, I've I've been brought to tears by many songs, but they're kind of uh even some of mine, but um or you know, at the very least, get some goosebumps.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Yeah. Well, when you're when you're a kid and you're hearing emotions that you don't understand, like I remember hearing my mom played the Roberta Flack Killing Me Softly album, and there's that beautiful Janicean song, Jesse. Jesse, come home, there's a hole in the bed. I didn't take that as some metaphorical thing. I pictured this hole in the bed that like would suck you down into it and keeping a light on the stairs. It was like the spookiest song, and now I listen to it and I'm like, oh, it's heartbreak, you know.

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Yeah, who knew?

SPEAKER_03 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Um well, that's the things you figure out when you're when you're a kid, you know, you're you're getting in touch with feelings that are expressed that you've never even felt yet, but you know that there's something to it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

Power of a song.

SPEAKER_04 7:19

Power of a song, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, well, so the streak on the other flip side was ridiculous and funny and stuff like that. So you were finding both the sad and the happy songs. What other songs brought you the most joy when you were a kid? Like when you heard them, it was just like so much fun.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

Um, good question. But uh, you know, I really got into Elton John at a certain point.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

Um and the Who, and I'm sure you've gotten you were Elton John fan as well.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

You know it.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

Um but I always always loved Island Girl, you know, when that came out on uh on the radio, I thought it was so fresh and happy sounding, and yeah, I'd never heard still drums before. And um, so that that was a that's a song that's kind of joyous even when I hear it today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

So when you were young and you didn't know instruments yet, do you remember a certain album where a certain instrument bass or guitar or something kind of stood out to you or you're it kind of took your ear like, whoa, what is that?

SPEAKER_04 8:27

Uh yes, actually um Goodbye Yellow Brick Road was one of them. Um mainly because not only do you have the uh the regular complement of bass drums, guitar, and vocal, but you have piano, and then you had all these ARP 2600 and Mo textures going on. And on another note, um The Who's Tommy, the movie soundtrack. Um you see, and I'm one of those weird guys. I mean, I recognize that the Who's Tommy is a classic record, but I kind of still prefer listening to the movie soundtrack.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

Just because of the just because of the music, really. I mean, the way that they they dolled it up so much, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Uh so m where was movies and movie musicals uh a place where you discovered a lot, or did, you know, were you able to watch films coming up, or were your parents like, nah, we're not we're not going out to see movies or uh you know, we would go out to see movies and things.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

I was never really prohibited from from listening to or watching anything, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

Um they pretty much I I was a pretty dastardly middle child with a lot of ADHD. I was completely uncontrollable. So if they if there was something that kept me quiet and bemused long enough, they would just let you know leave him alone, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Right. So had to how did you discover kind of some of the more complex music that you got into where it led to your understanding that the depth that you know brought the songwriting in jellyfish and later, you know, brought you to that depth. How at what point were you discovering, oh wait, this is like songwriting, this is how chords move. I want to play or you know, work these, make something of my own.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

Uh, probably around the age of 13. Um, and I started playing guitar at 11.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

All right.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Um, but I had a a really good friend of mine that he played as well. He uh we both took guitar lessons from this old lady in my hometown uh named Corine Williamson, and she she taught like marching band instruments too, and she was responsible for kind of starting all the marching bands in the county. This she was really old when we were taking lessons, so we would learn you know broadways musicals and standard jazz standards and gospel songs and all of this other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

So uh me and my friend, he was a bit of a miscreant like I was. So, you know, hey, let's start writing songs together, you know. So obviously your first songs you ever write are about the school principal or or um, you know, something going on in your little sixth grade classroom or whatever. Yeah, we just did that to amuse ourselves, really.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

How much of that's where well how I was gonna say, how much of the musical movie, uh the musical songs and gospel songs and stuff, how much of that sensibility came into your early songwriting? Because yeah, for me, like you said, Elton John, Billy Joel. Some of my early songs sound like I was trying to write an Elton John song or trying to write a Billy Joel song. But having those kind of standards in your mind a little bit, um, did that lead you to you utilizing that, or were you more kind of into rock and roll when you first kind of hit the guitar?

SPEAKER_04 11:55

Well, I didn't I didn't really know my ass from a hole in the ground in that sense. You know, to me, music was just music, and yeah, I think I think back then uh people weren't so hung up on specific genres, you know. This is it's gotten a bit silly now to me. I mean, at the end of the day, it's still really all just music. I mean, even at my age now, I still feel the same way, but yeah. Um, I wanted to I wanted to rock, yeah, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

And still do.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

And then, you know, just find the three chords that work and then you know, sing something over it.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

But um you're you're known for certain, you know, maybe rock music, right? Um what do you peek what do you wish people knew you more for or or knew about you that they don't?

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Um well I don't know. I it it's hard to say. Um because I've I've put everything out there my entire career. Yeah um so I think I think my work kind of speaks for itself. Um but you know, I I do have a a great love of all sorts of music. Um everything from world music to to folk music. I mean, I just don't even bad music, some of it I even like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

So no are there any guilty pleasures or are they just pleasures and you have no guilt because if it's if you like it, you like it.

SPEAKER_04 13:28

I I I like it if I like it. If if I find something that I think has some kind of value, I'm going to going to appreciate it in some way.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Um what do you like that other people would call a guilty pleasure or would say, like, oh my god, really? And you're like, I love this, or are you kidding?

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Uh probably a lot of things. Like, for example, I mean, this is a bad example, but it's just one example. Um, the Shags.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Philosophy of the Philosophy of the World record. I actually dig it. Um or you know, uh, people with uh Frank Zappa record. Like I remember a lot of the girls in high school, I'd play Zappa for them, and they got, ooh, I don't like that. You know. Um but there there are those, there are those bands. I mean, I think uh even like mall rat bands, like uh mindless self-indulgence. I think I remember liking a couple of their songs, you know, because they were kind of smart asses and stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

That always shines through when somebody's a smart ass, no matter what kind of music, it's uh it shines through.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Yeah, that guy was sort of a sort of a bugs bunny character, and I was like, oh, I I can go to Hot Topic. I can see myself kind of hearing a few of these. But um, you know, it's all music at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

It is. Um, so you probably have listened to a uh a lot of music, a lot of albums that have become favorites of yours or whatnot. What's an album that you love that generally uh doesn't have great production, but you love it nonetheless? Like either the production's dated or it's just not a great produced record, but you just love the music so much you'd you can bypass that.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

Oh gosh. Um well, I don't know. I mean I don't necessarily think that uh that uh say uh the Kinks, you know, some Kinks records they don't sound that great, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

They're very kind of just rough and tumble like you know, basic engineering. And you can even hear inharmonic distortion, bad things on the tape or the or the you know, so um that might be one. I didn't think Power Man sounded that good. There are a lot of records I don't think are probably mastered that well, yeah, including some of mine, you know. Um but if the song's good, I generally just let it slide like um you know, I I could listen to Algebra Suicide, which was probably recorded on a four-track reel to reel, and it's not it's not top-of-the-line quality, but I like it.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah. And sometimes a record, if it's been with you since you were a teenager and didn't know it was it wasn't great production or whatever, it just has that nostalgia for you. So uh Yeah, it does. On the flip side, what would be an album or or two or a song or two that you would play on speakers to get a sense of how they sound? Like your your test tunes, like you go into a new studio, you want to hear something familiar so you know how it sounds on those speakers. Do you have any go-to's?

SPEAKER_04 16:38

Uh, not really, and I probably should do that because I know a lot of people are like, you need a reference track if you're mixing your songs, but to me, it's like I'm sort of uh coming up with my own blueprint for that stuff. Yeah. And that's that's just numbers crunching and and learning about production and and things of that sort. But I think back in the old days when we used to go to uh play clubs and places like that, we would put on the yes big generator record. Um but I mean you can always use a Steely Dan record.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

I mean, you know, or um some of that stuff is is so amazingly hi-fi. I mean, even if you don't like the music, you're gonna be like, this sounds good on any system, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

I remember uh my first tour, the the sound engineer would always use Tom Sawyer and Cruise Slut by Frank Zappa as his two songs to like tune the PA. Because he knew them, he trusted them, you know.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Well, yeah, Cruise Slut is an amazing recording. A lot of Zappa recordings are really well done. Um you know, going back to things that I didn't think sounded that good that I still love, yeah. I've I found the sound of the Dixie Dregs records a bit weird to me. Always have, but I love them, you know. Yes, I was I always thought Steve Morse's guitar sounded very strange in those days. Um but I mean I'm I'm a massive fan.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Yeah, you know, so and the guy's a great player. And you know, if you're a great player, uh the sound not being maybe the best sound ever, you overcome it by sheer talent.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Um and you, you know, I have a lot I feel for people having to do this stuff because it's really um, you know, taking AI or anything out of the out of the situation, it's really hard work to make music.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

You know, it doesn't matter what era that you've been doing in, whether it was tape or eight ads or Pro Tools, it's it's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

You know.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

People hear the finished product, they don't know the hours that goes into, you know, cutting it and recording it, and mixing it and overdubbing or whatever's happening, you know. Um, I I think a lot of people do fix things, auto-tune things or whatnot, instead of trying to get it right. Obviously, back in the days before autotune, you sang it until you had it right. And you wouldn't necessarily go in the studio unless you could sing, you know.

SPEAKER_04 19:13

Well, there was that. That was that thing called talent that, you know, kind of important to get in the door, but I digress.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

As I as a uh piano player, an acoustic piano player, I feel like it's one of the last bastions that AI can't touch, you know. Come at me, bro.

SPEAKER_04 19:29

It certainly can't, and uh, you know, it can't even really uh I mean so far, at least with AI music, and I've got a lot of experience with it.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

Um, but yeah, a real piano, and I have some great piano plugins here, but they're not I mean, I I know your piano sounds amazing because I've played it before.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Um recording something like that properly, there's nothing can touch it.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Yeah. And I you I hear piano, like I've recorded my own piano my whole life and been in studios recording piano, so there's a lot of ways people do it. Some way overdone. Sometimes just you like a mono mic on the soundboard and a room mic gets the whole sound because ultimately piano is supposed to be one sound, not this huge bandwidth thing that can eat up the whole song, you know. If it's just piano and vocal, that's one thing. But if it's in a mix, I I I like a tight wedge to really keep it in a place. So like the piano's here, you know?

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Um that monocompatibility.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah, I I love that. Um, so I want to go, I want to go back to your teenage years, 13, when you're starting to get into your own emotions. What song at that time made you think of heartbreak that you actually understood it, whether it was you had a first crush or whatnot? What was what was a song or two that represented heartbreak to your teenage self?

SPEAKER_04 21:01

A Man I'll Never Be by Boston.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Man, I was so into that one when I was a kid. Because I had a I had a girlfriend of about 13 or 14, and uh, you know, we'd broken up. I was on the basketball team. I wasn't allowed to have a girlfriend, but I did.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

And I think she she left me for one of my friends, and you know, she would she would play Boston and I'd listen to that song, and I'd get all weepy and and everything. But I mean, there's so many other songs too. The uh Harmony by Elton John is another one.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

So good.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

Uh you know, I mean that still puts goosebumps on me when I hear the the uh the cadence going out, yeah. The way how that works, it just melts me every time, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

Um so that's that's a couple of them.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

I mean, so how about how about songs when you were in love with your girlfriend or when you're feeling what what songs represented to you the opposite of heartbreak when you're Falling in love or songs that really made you feel that were the song connected with the emotion finally.

SPEAKER_04 22:07

Well, could it be I'm falling in love? Yeah. That's one. A lot of that AM Gold type pop music, I absolutely, you know, is is totally part of my DNA.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Um, so I think I went to more of the AM Gold pop for the happy numbers, you know, because uh as a typical teenager, I was slightly gothic and you know, brooding and uh and yet still listen to bread, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Like oh, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

I'm never gonna throw away my bread records.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

I mean so in in this era we talk about like love songs, heartbreak songs, sad songs. In the 70s, there was a lot of singer, songwriter, and storytelling songs. What about spooky songs? Like I told you about that song Jesse spooked me out as a kid. What songs were gave you a spooky vibe when you were growing up?

SPEAKER_04 23:07

Ode to Billy Joe by Bobby Gentry would probably be one of them. Um I think that's it it's got a some brilliant strings in it that kind of it's kind of a backdrop for this uh this tension, you know. Um and I always thought that was a really spooky song.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

One of mine was Angie Baby by Helen Reddy.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

Oh yeah. Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

Angie Baby kind of creepy disappearing into the radio and everyone thinks she died, except a crazy girl with a secret lover that keeps her satisfied. I'm getting goosebumps now. Like and people don't write those kind of people don't write spooky, weird songs like that anymore. That's very rarely you'll hear a song like a modern song that attempts to do that. I and I I use the term spooky, but there really is something creepy about a story owed to Billy Joe where you just get wrapped up in it as a kid. You're just like, this is weird, whether it's from not understanding it and and not and taking it literally, or whether it's just a weird story.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

Um actually Or like uh the night the lights went out in Georgia by Vicky Lawrence. Yeah, that's another spooky number. Like, what happened? Why why did the lights go out?

SPEAKER_03 24:24

You know, like yeah, like seeing the lights go out on Broadway, you know, Billy Joel, like what the hell is going on? Everything is going to hell. Um but I think being creeped out as a kid is a unique feeling to hear a song where it just it's like weird, it's spooky, it's like a horror movie because you just don't understand it.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Um I mean, don't fear the reaper every Halloween, man. I have to spin it.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

I I love Blue Oyster Colt, so they have so many great songs in their discography, but what's a Blue Oyster Cult song that for somebody that only knows the hits, you would say, Oh, you gotta hear.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

Well, I mean, you have you have to hear Burning for You because it's like a staple of I mean, you've already heard it, I'm sure, because it's just a staple of 80s rock radio, but it's also a very well-written rock song.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Totally. And so, yeah, I mean, I I just I just find uh bands like that, I mean, they've been around forever. Yeah, went through different types of changes, but uh they always seem to deliver something that has some kind of value.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Is that so there's certain bands, I guess if you know all of their records, uh you know more about them, but there's certain bands they only have a hit or two, and beyond the hits, there's actually a m a lot of great songs, but they just don't make it to radio or people don't discover them. One of the best examples for me is Pilot. I mean, magic, we all grew up hearing magic by pilot, but they have so much other great music, just never reached us, and we never at that time listened beyond just the single, you know?

SPEAKER_04 25:59

Yeah, that's a that's a bit of a pity, isn't it? Just kind of the way that the cookie crumbles.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

It's there to be discovered now, and talking about it is bringing it out so people go, Oh, I gotta dig deep for pilot. Yeah, don't speak loudly and dear artist, oh my god, the song, the the strings and that. There's a lot to dig for. So um, what would what would be a song back in the day when you would only hear a song on the radio? What would be a song you'd sit at the radio and wait for it to come on? Um maybe even with a cassette player ready to tape it off the radio.

SPEAKER_04 26:34

Yes. Well, that would be two songs that I could think of.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

All right.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

One was well, three actually. Okay, so I was really into Rapper's Delight when I first heard it. I was like, oh, this is the greatest thing ever. So I would call the local RB soul station, you know, and and try to request it. And I finally get through one day and I'm like, hey man, play Rapper's Delight. And the DJ goes, oh man, that that song's tired and hung up on me. Oh and I used to call and request uh Anthony's song by Billy Joel because I I loved heart attack, act, act, act, I was a kid, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

Um and then anytime I could hear uh and The Cradle Will Rock by Van Halen, I would absolutely turn it up. But I used to record the radio all the time.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

Like we would drive to the the to Tuscaloosa where the University of Alabama was growing up, and they had uh you know the college radio station there. So we would like 15, we would take our boom box and go tune in the radio, college station, because on the on Friday and Saturdays they would play uh heavy metal, all the sunset strip metal stuff and Halen. And like, you know, people would be complaining and calling, you need to, you know, I think they played Wasp, you know, fuck like a beast, you know, and all the parents were going, we can't have this for our kids. Um so it was a that was an important rite of passage growing up was uh to be able to record the radio at all times or have it have it close by, you know.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Right. Um what's what's some music that you dismissed or hated as a kid that now you love?

SPEAKER_04 28:29

Two instances of that, and they're it they're very funny.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

Good.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

Um and they both took place on SNL. So, you know, mind you, I'm still maybe 13, 12, 13, and uh Divo came out and played Jocko Homo, and I remember getting like physically ill. Like I just I wanted to vomit. Like, I was like, what is this? You know, it was like the Eddie Murphy joke. This ain't no McDonald's, you know. And uh I was like, man, I don't know what this is about, but I don't care for it. And then uh Kate Bush, funny enough, doing rolling the ball. I was like, who's this, bruh? You know. Um and now I mean I think by the time I got in high school, and they or by the time they released Whip It Devo, I was like all on board. It didn't take me very long to catch on. And really about the same with uh Kate Bush. Once I got into high school, I I went through a massive uh Kate Bush phase where I got Hounds of Love for uh Christmas when it came out, and it was like, well, that's my Christmas record. It's still kind of a Christmas record to me to this day, but yeah, now I love them both, you know.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

So back when you started going to concerts, um, were you a kid that got dropped off at concerts by your parents before you could drive, or was it really when you could drive or had friends that drove that you could finally attend concerts?

SPEAKER_04 30:06

I I went when uh you know, when my friends got their. I mean, we didn't even bother with our license. We had our permits, I think, and we were driving to shows. I mean, it was a bit you know, a different time back then. I I was driving when I was 13, basically. Um legally, of course.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

What was your closest venue to see shows big and small?

SPEAKER_04 30:29

Uh an hour away.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

So arena kind of thing?

SPEAKER_04 30:34

Uh yeah, it was the uh the Birmingham Jefferson Civic Center, and it it sounded like a bathtub, but you know, I saw so many shows there. There was another um Boutwell Auditorium in Birmingham, which very nice sounding venue. Uh so obviously all my early early concerts there.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

What's the first show you saw by a band that you really knew the music well? So you were going to like with this all the songs you're ready to hear.

SPEAKER_04 31:03

Oh, that was Kiss, like everybody our age, I think. You know, 1979 Dynasty Tour.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Nice, full makeup. Yeah. Explosions and spit and blood and the whole nine yards.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

Yeah, it was it was pure heaven.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

That'll leave a mark. Yeah, it will. What's a band that you went and saw, and they were far better than you thought they were gonna be? You were like expecting it was gonna be good, but it just floored you.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Oh, okay. I know. Um Billy Squire opening for Foreigner on the Foreigner 4 tour.

unknown 31:43

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

Um I loved both of them, but I didn't I went into it not knowing anything about Billy Squire, and he absolutely tore the roof off of the place. He was fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:57

Um, and Foreigner, of course, needs no introduction. They were great too, but I almost nodded off a little bit during Foreigner 4 because I don't I'm not a really big oh no, please.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

I mean, I'm just you know, I'd rather hear the edgy stuff, but games and whatnot.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Yeah, but but Billy Squire, man, was just on all four cylinders when he came out.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

He needs to come back out and do one one more tour. I mean, I think like his music still holds up and all those hits, and I think after the Rock Me Tonight video, he kind of pulled back and never really. I mean, I know he's he did tours after that, but I think he felt that was like a big hit to his career. But the songs, I'd go see Billy Squire in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_04 32:43

Rock Me Tonight's a fantastic song. I agree. One pink shirt ruined the whole thing. I just I don't get it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

I don't either. But you know, that's it. People take things and they run with it, and then everybody's opinion kind of jumps on the bandwagon. Like I just did a podcast talking about one of my all-time favorite movies, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band, and soundtrack, um, which was totally maligned. Everybody said it ruined the Bee Gees, ruined Peter Frampton, ruined everybody. Meanwhile, the very next year the Bee Gees come out with Spirits Having Flown, they got Too Much Heaven, they got Tragedy, they got Love You Inside and Out. I mean, this was not a band on the decline, you know? But um not at all. That that for me is an album that I love. I will proselytize about, um, I will stand for its honor anytime. Um, you know, sometimes again, it's uh it's like you're you're just coming to the honor of music that you love because you love it, not because it's of any other reason. It's just like stop maligning this amazing record. Stop, this is my child. Um what um what band have you seen the most live in concert?

SPEAKER_04 33:57

Alice Cooper?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Just from being a part of it.

SPEAKER_04 34:01

Yeah. Um that was I I I can't say that I I didn't really follow anyone around and like go to too many multiple shows. I mean, I've seen Van Allen a few times uh during the day, but my whole focus was always on the experience of trying to see everybody at least once. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Was there anybody you missed that you just couldn't get to and you sadly can't see any anymore?

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Don Rickles very sad. He passed away. He was uh at the Canyon Club, and I was gonna go see him finally, you know. Um, and he passed away. But um no, I got to I got to see um James Brown, seen uh Prince. Um so I can't say that there's too many people that I've I've missed, but I'm sure I'd think of somebody.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

Is there anybody that you saw that was uh utter disappointment? And you were just like, oh man, why did I have to see that? Um well maybe, but uh we don't want to speak badly of anybody, but you know, say a bad show is a bad show, you know. You've probably seen a bad show by a band you love that happened.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

Yeah, yeah. I just uh I mean, and I won't name any names. I just think that um and it it really kind of pertains to even today, uh, when music becomes entertainment and just too entertainment-based, then I'm like kind of checking out, you know. Uh, and I think there are there's some bands that are guilty of that from every era.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Do you think there's any bands that, you know, let's say at least 30 years into their career still put out crucial music? You know, any bands that past their early years were that you know it's generally regarded as their classic period, still 20, 30, 40 years later, put out music that you would, you know, find crucial or add to a playlist?

SPEAKER_04 36:07

Absolutely. Um the the greatest example that I can think of with somebody like that would be Wire or Sparks. Um I love both of those bands very intimately. Uh and I heard uh I heard the new Wire Wireman, they put out a record a few years ago, and it's still they're still just as good uh as as I remember them, you know. It's very art rock to be sure, but um, once you get into that headspace and and you you acquire a taste for it, you know, nothing really replaces it. And and I think they're what in their early 70s, but yeah, their music still sounds amazing, you know. There's something age is not a factor.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

No, but you you would agree that there's certain years in the past where so many critical, like amazing albums came out, like 1971 is a year that's referred to as one of the greatest years of music. All the albums that came out that year, what would be another year that you would point to as being an amazing year for a whole bunch of releases that are just they lined up?

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Uh I've always been partial to 1979.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

What what was it about 79?

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Uh well, because things like Blondie and uh you know punk starting to kind of come in. Um I was never a huge fan of disco. Um you know, I like my pop rock songs, you know, my David Essex and Elton John and Billy Joel, but uh disco sort of like sidetracked their everything, and then so all these cool bands, you know, seem to start. I mean Wire was formed in 77.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

Um television, Marquee Moon, uh The Talking Heads. I mean, just all uh just a whole new way of of of Devo. Yeah, a whole new way of coming about with with new sounds. The cars, you know, you know, 1979 is your your year there. I'd say from like 79 to 1982 were were pre were pretty awesome years.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

Then after that, uh the commercialization of the decade kind of kicked in and you know.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

It's it was tricky, and then you had you know the switch over to the alt rock and grunge in the 90s, and you know, people don't understand that and I'll I'll bring this band up. Certain bands are there's kind of a before them and an after them. I think Jane's addiction doesn't get the credit for which they're due, but they were playing the rock scene like 85 or 6 at the time when Bon Jovi and David Lee Roth and the Big Hair stuff was going on. They were this weird little band that you never would have thought was going to be as important as they are. But I think they're a band, um, maybe like Alice and Chains, that so many bands were influenced by them afterwards that they became more of a touchstone and an influence than people saw. But uh Black Sabbath is another one. In their day, it wasn't regarded as the godfathers of heavy metal, but you know, you get enough decades past and everybody loves Black Sabbath, you know?

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Right. And uh I mean Jane's addiction hugely influential on me because I really uh, you know, the commercialization of the 80s, it it really it really got silly and it got kind of not dangerous. And I always craved danger in my rock music, you know. So when nothing shocking came out, I was like, yeah, baby.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Did you did you see them early on, Jane's addiction?

SPEAKER_04 39:49

I've never seen them. I'm good, I'm good friends with Stephen Perkins, as you know, but um you may never see them again. Yeah, yeah, but I I I hear that they uh kiss and made up, so I'm hoping for something good to come from them.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

So I'll I'm gonna tell you a quick story. Um, I was living on Miami Beach, and Iggy Pop was coming to play a place called the Cameo Theater, um, which was this cool little theater that a lot of bands played amidst all of the other stuff on Miami Beach. And I was walking home from the beach and the side doors were open, and I heard some guitar playing. So I just wandered in in my flip-flops and towel and I watched Jane's Addiction soundcheck, just standing there in the middle of the cameo, and I was like, wow, that was cool. I'd never heard of them, didn't understand or know. And I went home. I did I didn't even have tickets to the show that night. So I saw Jane's Addiction soundcheck opening for Iggy Pop, um, but never actually saw the show. Um, these things happen. But um are do you think there's other bands that um are more important as an influence than people give them credit for?

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Well, uh certainly there are. Um, you know, a lot of bands, some some bands are gonna get all the attention.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:09

Uh but it's always been being aware of all of that, the mainstream and and the chart toppers. I mean, I've always been aware of all those things and listened to all that and loved some of it.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

But I've always kind of like looking around in the cracks to see what what else is there because um familiarity breeds contempt in my world. I just there's only so many times that I can hear even you know some Beatles songs. I just quite frankly. Um where at but but at the same time, like you know, I grew up being aware of Rush, but I was never a huge rush fan. And I'm a fan, I'm not like a musician-y fan, but I like them a lot. So I'm when Tom Sawyer comes on the radio, I'm never gonna turn it off. Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Um here's a question for you. What's uh your least favorite song by one of your favorite bands? A band you love almost everything they do, but that one song, man.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

You know, this has come up in the last year or so with me. Um there are bands that you you grew up thinking were infallible.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

And then you start going back and listening, and you're like, that's not a very good song, is it? Um and for me, I'll go ahead and piss everybody off. Uh there's some Beatles songs don't care for. There's some XTC songs I don't care for. You're just gonna have to deal with it. I don't know if I'm gonna call out the songs, right? Though I just um because I I still hold them in such reverence.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:52

But I mean, even the greatest geniuses can kind of make some clunky stuff.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Well, but so and sometimes there's even a hit, maybe it's oversaturation, but like I don't I skip Rock and Roll by Zeppelin, I skip Tie Your Mother Down by Queen. I s there's a couple songs I'm just like, yeah, all right. Yeah, I'd rather go for that song or that song, you know. I I generally fall off with Rush after Power Windows, and I'm a huge Rush fan. Um, but the there's certain stuff that just speaks to me. And I think, you know, with the Beatles, you know, they had so many great songs. They're bound to have a couple that are okay or that just don't strike you. I mean, Van Halen and Led Zeppelin bands, that every record pretty much was stacked. Um, but then, you know, you might not dig hot dog or you know.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

Exactly. Yeah, I mean, you know, we're I try to be uh forgiving of of the people that whose music I love.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

They're gonna go off in a direction I don't understand sometimes. It doesn't mean I I, you know, don't totally respect and love them because obviously we both know how hard it is to to continue to make music. And and to say something.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

I mean, I I I love certain out certain artists, the songs that I love by them, I love so much that they're like I could they're ingrained in me forever. And there's albums worth of songs that I don't care about, you know, and it might be because they took a lot of chances and it was just hit or miss, but you know, I probably gravitate to the same 12 or 15 David Bowie songs or Prince songs. Um and I I'll go and dig in places where I haven't before and I might find something, but I generally come back to um what I feel is the strongest stuff for me. Um and other people say, wait, but didn't you listen to Diamonds and Pearls? Or wait, but that you know Earthling record, and I'll go, okay, I've got to revisit that. It's been a while, maybe I'll I'll hear it with fresh ears or whatnot.

SPEAKER_04 44:44

Are there artists like that for you where you love like a handful of tunes and the rest is kind of billions, billions of people like that. Really?

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Um The Cars had had a whole bunch of great songs and then a lot of other stuff. Jackson Brown, you go through his records, it's like one or two tunes. James Taylor had a you know hit their greatest hits, is great. But they took a lot of time getting to that of trying different songs out, and you know.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

Just my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

No, I mean, you know, that that's the great thing about music too. It's the time capsule aspect of it is such that even if you don't understand something, you can put it away for a while and then come back to it with fresh ears or a fresh attitude or whatever, and then it'll then it'll speak to you, tell you the secrets that it that it harbored.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Or reveal that it was exactly what you thought. And you're like, yeah, this is not getting any better.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

Yeah, like see, I don't know. I don't know if I have great taste or no taste at all.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Because you have great taste. You wouldn't when I was uh you wouldn't be the musician you are, you wouldn't make the music you did you do if you didn't have great taste. You really do. For what it's worth.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

I just try try to do it as honestly as possible.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Uh did did did you have a favorite band growing up that now is no longer your favorite band? It's still one of your favorites, but did you have one that was like top and then now it's kind of receded a little bit?

SPEAKER_04 46:19

I never really had a top band. I mean, there was a time when I was, you know, flower of youth, uh cranking my Van Halen records and and uh you know docking and but at the same time I was turned on to the police and Thomas Dolby and and New Wave Records, you know. Yeah, um I always just tried to keep it very broad because I would get bored really easily.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

Um and then I even in um high school turned on to classical and flamenco music. Nice. So I studied classical for a few years, but didn't have the patience.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

But it happens. Um, you know what that's some of what you get into music for. There's girls, there's activity, there's you know, excitement. Um turning to lyrics for a moment, who in your mind are some of the greatest lyricists that um, you know, there's people that are are super known, Bob Dylan, you know, but are there people that you go to uh for lyricists that you think are not as well known or as well regarded and that and their work is just incredible?

SPEAKER_04 47:37

Uh well, yeah, there's there's probably several. Um now I I don't know how you feel about this, but uh for example, I just mentioned Thomas Stolby.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:49

Uh I don't think there's a bad lyric on those first two records. They're the lyrics and the music is it's a perfect coupling of of what I want to hear in music, you know. Uh I've I think he's kind of underrated in a lot of a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:07

Um I don't know about his later work.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

People know, like, you know, the couple of songs Blind Me with Science and One of Our Submarines, but they might not know anything deeper. Again, an artist where they just had that one critical zeitgeist song, but there's much more there, whereas maybe a Men Without Hats there's not, you know?

SPEAKER_04 48:24

Yeah, men without hats or the lilac time, you know, you might be pushing it there, but uh to get deeper. Yeah, there there's there's a a special quality to what uh what he was writing at that time that uh inspired me greatly. And also Prince. Yeah um but there's there's also for Prince he he was so uh prodigious in output uh some of his some of his work after a certain point didn't didn't hit me as hard.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:58

But the sign of the Times record is a another great uh song of lyrics. But people, you know, people know about him, people know about Joni Mitchell, right? Um But uh yeah, that's a that is a good question.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Um, you know, it's it and it I guess it hits everybody differently, but you know, people would generally regard you know at Neil Peart from Rush, um, you know, different people as great lyricists. They said a lot, it was a lot more than just words, it was philosophy, you know, teachings, I don't know what. Um I think some people, you know, it's it's like a fine line to not be preachy, but be able to put some depth into lyrics. And there's always going to be room for party rock anthems and fun stuff, but um, there's also room for for a lot of depth in music. Is there music that you um listen to that you would describe as intellectual? Like, whereas like it's you know it's got that rarefied air of being a little a little too deep.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

Oh, um, hmm. Well, there probably is, um, and and you're right, I I don't like the preachy thing either. I want to be seduced.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 50:14

Uh so if somebody's singing about quantum physics, you know, they're gonna have they're still gonna have to seduce me into buying into it. Right. Um but uh when something's overly intellectual, or you know, usually it degenerates into purple prose, you know, and you're just like, I just don't dig this style at all.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Um but yeah, I I the reason I can't really name anything is because I've instantly turned something like that off. I say it.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

I gotcha. What um I'm gonna ask you a couple random questions. What's a singer that you think was great but deserved better material?

SPEAKER_04 50:59

Grim bonnet.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Because you gotta remember when he started out, he was kind of just a pop singer. Um and I I'm not saying that anything he did with uh Alcatraz or anything, I love all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:16

Um but he did have, or still, he has a pretty iconic rock voice.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

Um that I I wish he could have found material that uh could have facilitated more from him.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yeah. It's like a quarterback without the right football team.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

But you know, I mean, people bag on uh deep purple for going commercial, you know, by covering uh by doing the Russ Ballard song, but that's Graham singing on it.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:48

And it is it's kind of one of my favorite deep purple songs, to be honest with you. I like it better than Smoke on the Water just because it's so poppy. Yeah. Since you've been gone.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

Yeah. Great. I mean, look, a lot of bands, you know, turn to guys like Russ Ballard or Desmond Child, and you know, they wanted radio hits. You know, I think Alice, Alice Cooper, I believe, wrote with uh some people like that.

SPEAKER_04 52:12

Uh yes, he definitely did.

SPEAKER_03 52:14

Um so uh I wanted to wrap up with what uh what's one of the worst things you've ever seen happen on stage at a concert? Whether you were in the concert or you were in the audience.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Worst things.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

Just like uh an accident, a mishap, uh something going wrong.

SPEAKER_04 52:35

Uh oh, well, there's plenty of them. I'm just trying to catalog them. Um well, I I did have a bad experience in Brazil once in uh Rio when I was playing with Slash, and I think it was the uh the last night of wrapping up the tour in Brazil. We were playing this big theater somewhere, and uh you know, I used to run around and do all this these shenanigans and whatnot, and I'd at one point had taken the microphone stand and I you know came down and slammed it on the on the stage floor, yeah. And I'm like, whatever, you know, I'm rocking, I'm up there, like people going nuts. Um we get off stage and the police show up and they're like we're gonna be taking you to jail. And I'm like, what? What the hell went on? And what had happened, C, was when I when I pulled that mic mic stand down, it was one of those base mic stands, but it was made out of this really cheap pot metal or something. So when I did that, the base of the mic stand exploded into all this shrapnel that went into the audience and it hit this poor kid like in the head somewhere. I could have killed him.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 53:59

But I had no idea. You know, this guy's bleeding and and stuff, and the police are like, yeah, we're gonna take you and take you to the pokey, to the hooscow, you know. Oh, they don't call it that there, but um we uh we somehow smoothed that over and and and uh you know took care of it. And uh the guy was gracious, you know, poor guy, I didn't mean to do it. It was he was a total accident, but yeah, it was pretty bad the you know, the gore and and realizing that I'd hurt somebody without you know without meaning to.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

So of course, you're not a guy that wants to inflict pain on others. I I get that from your heart.

SPEAKER_04 54:38

No, I'm not a Gigi Allen sort of guy, you know.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Oh that that guy. Um so let me wrap up with a question. If you could go back to your youth and tell yourself one piece of advice, now whether you'd listen or not, that's a different story. But if Eric Dover of the Future came back to your 13-year-old self, let's say, said, Look, just trust me on this. What's one thing that you could have given as far as advice that would have made a more positive change in your direction? Or saved you some hassle?

SPEAKER_04 55:15

Uh well, I think that's pretty easily answered. Um would be for me, if I went back, I would have to tell myself, and I I probably did tell myself this or somebody did back then, was to uh to master your emotions. You know um I was very impulsive. I had a very impulsive nature, you know. If it was if it was there, I would go do it. If a girl gave me attention at school, I'd be like, I'm in love. Like I didn't have a a lot of emotional regulation, I was a bit all over the place. I I did have some common sense and I had a goal, I was a goal-oriented person. But you know, hindsight's 2020, and every kid doesn't have control of their emotions either.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

Right.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

Uh but I I think that you know, if I had kids, I don't have children, but I would probably impress upon them that you need to understand what you're feeling before you can react to something uh appropriately, you know.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

So that's great.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

I think uh emotional intelligence is something that is is just vastly important and overlooked in a lot of cases.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

And lacking in the general populace these days.

SPEAKER_04 56:31

Yeah, it's just you know, uh it's uh it's a hard thing for every human in life. You know, you're you're learning the entire time.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:41

Um but but mastering your emotions, I would say, will serve you well if you can do it. And I Stoicism. Some some amount of stoicism is required in this business, Robbie. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Yeah, or it'll eat you alive, right? Um, and we're in a business that has changed so much that what even is the business nowadays, you know? I mean, it's kind of a free-for-all, it's kind of a you can put yourself out everywhere and in a way that you could never before. And yet it's too easy to get lost in the clutter and you know, how to stand out and how to cut through. And, you know, it's uh it's a wild time, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 57:18

Absolutely it is. I mean, we're all going through it.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

Yeah, but well, you know, for those of us that are compelled beyond all compulsion to just keep making music, that's what we do. And at the end of the day, that's you know, our catalog is there, as like you said, uh, when we started talking, a record of everything you've done. Let the music do the talking. Joe Perry said it best. Um, you know, when people go back to listen to Hendrix, they can listen to his whole catalog and it's all there and available. So everything that you put out gives people another chance to hear another chapter, to understand you, see other sides and facets, or um explore you more. And I appreciate that you're putting out music and uh following your sense of curiosity with it and not I mean, you've never been a trend guy, but I love that you're just still exploring your your own curiosity, and I'm loving the music you make. Um so I I hope you still continue and know that there's people out there that really love hearing it.

SPEAKER_04 58:17

Well, thank you. And I feel the same about you. You you've always uh forged your own path.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

You know it.

SPEAKER_04 58:23

And uh I respect I respect that. Going go off to the unknown, do your thing.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

Um and just let let those chips fall where they may, you know. And yeah, you just operate from a place of love, you're gonna be good.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

That's it. And and you gotta like what you do. You know, there's nothing worse than hearing a record you made and being like, it could have been, it should have been. I wish the producer, you know. So I I've been producing my own stuff recently, and I just love what it is because I go back and listen to it and it's exactly how I wanted it. Yeah. For better or for worse, that's where my love went. That's where it all, all the chips are on the table, and you know, and then here comes something next, you know.

SPEAKER_04 59:05

Right. It's like developing a photograph, you know. Like I like to work in my own dark room, and if the photograph comes out a little overexposed, that's fine if it if it's you know, whatever it is. Um but you can go back and you go, well, I could have did that better, but but the uh the meat of everything is still there, the song's there, the the feeling, the intent. So I I try not to be so hard on myself anymore like that. I I work really hard at it.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:34

And I'm happy with the results, and I hope to keep getting better as I as I as I go along, you know.

SPEAKER_03 59:41

I love that. Well, maybe you and I'll make some uh music in the in the not too distant future. Have a jam or write a song or something.

SPEAKER_04 59:48

Yeah. Keep that piano in tune, you know.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

I will. Yeah. I wanna I'm gonna make a nice we'll do like a piano ballad where your voice can really shine. We'll make something that's unlike anything you've done before.

unknown 59:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

Who knows?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

I'd be into that. Yeah, why not? Experiment a bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:03

Well, uh, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And um, I'll uh let you know when this is gonna be up, but uh let's keep in touch and have a great 2026.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

You too, my friend. Pleasure talking to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

You too. I'll talk to you soon, all right? Okay, peace out, peace out.