The Curious Musician Interview: Marc Ferrari

Greetings and welcome to The Curious Musician! This is a space where we will explore creativity and curiosity by interviewing a host of interesting and notable people for chewy conversations and some great concert stories too. 

In today's episode I am joined by Marc Ferrari, guitarist for Keel and Cold Sweat. Marc’s journey through rock and roll has had some interesting twists and turns, plus quite a few amazing shows and experiences along the way. Enjoy the episode and stay tuned for more!

Link up at www.instagram.com/the.curiousmusician and YouTube!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Well, hello there. I'm here with Mark Ferrari, a guy that I have known now for a while. And uh this is the first time we've really had a chat like this. Mark, welcome. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Oh good. Thanks for having me uh on the on the uh the Robbie Jeanette show.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Well, so um this is really an uh a chance to talk about creativity and curiosity and the way that your early life became your later life. So I want to dig in a little bit to when you first realized that you were musical, when something drew you either to an instrument or to a listening experience or watching on TV, where you kind of were drawn to it in a way that was a little extra.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Yeah, well, that that uh memory is is very clear in my head because I was I was a pretty rambunctious kid. I think uh, you know, I think my my folks were uh almost gonna put me on Riddle in back back in the day, you know. I just had all this energy, it was always running around. And uh so one day we were visiting some cousins. We were living on Long Island at the time. We were visiting some cousins and go over to visit the cousins, and you know, I was running around as usual, you know, just burning off energy, you know. And there was a guitar there, you know, one of my cousins played guitar, and I remember my mom just giving me the guitar and saying, Hey, play with this, you know, give us a break. Yeah, here's a new toy for you, you know, here's something new. Um, and that was it. I was eight years old. And uh how do I know how do I remember I was eight? Because for my ninth birthday, they got me my first guitar. What was it? What guitar was that? It's it's a Stella uh um uh metal string, you know, acoustic metal string guitar. Cool, and uh actually it plays pretty good. I pulled it out the other day. Uh and um actually I I read an article in the LA Times about a music store in Eagle Rock, uh, and the guy was shown holding a Stella guitar, you know. Cool. Called him, hey, what are these guitars worth? You know? Well, they made a lot of them, you know, even though this this particular guitar is over 50 years old, you know, it's it's not a museum piece or anything. Right. But that was my that was my first introduction to the guitar, and I took to it, you know, took to it.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

What would have been the first songs that you got under your fingers that you could play?

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Well, in the very, very beginning, I did have lessons, you know, to learn how to properly play it. And I did learn how to read, you know. I remember those old Mel Bay books. Yeah. Um, so my first songs would have been those pretty easy, you know, one or two two-string songs that you would play on those things. And um, but I you know, I progressed, you know, into uh I took lessons for a few years, and then my folks moved up to uh the Rochester area, and I continued taking lessons up there.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Uh was House of Guitars open at that point?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Well, House of Guitars was open, but that didn't come on my radar till a little till my teenage years. Right. I moved up to Rochester, the Rochester area when I was nine. Uh so it must have been shortly. I got I got my first guitar in January of 71. Uh my folks moved up to Rochester in August of 71.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Gotcha. And was what music um that you were listening to? And you know, a lot of times when we're young, we listen to our parents' music, but was there a band or a guitar player that oriented you into where you led with the guitar?

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Certainly the Beatles, because I remember my folks uh taking me to see one of the Beatles movies in the theaters, you know, back you know, before 1971, you know, whatever that would have been, you know, might have been Let It Be, actually. Uh I believe they had a theatrical release back then. But so certainly I was trying to emulate some of those early Beatles songs at a pretty early age.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

So and then yes, and from then, you know, as I got older and uh moved into junior high and got exposed to here I am, you know, 13 years old, going into junior high and then hanging out with older kids who are listening to you know Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith and Ted Nugent and Lou Kinnard, you know, all those Bachman Turner overdrive, you know, back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

So that was you know, kind of like my my first um exposure to rock music was you know hanging out with these older kids. And of course, then you know, trying to figure out that stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

So was there a guitar player that when you heard them play, you it you were kind of mystified? Like, how does this person make this sound?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah, well, I think originally it was all of them, you know, yeah, right. It was all of them. But when we fast forward to a year later, 1976, I'm 14 years old, and I I go see KISS, you know? Yep, and that's that that was the pivotal moment in my you know, in my life, seeing KISS at the Niagara Falls Convention Center in April of 76, and they were still, I think they had just started touring on the destroyer album, they're still doing most of Kiss Alive One, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Oh man, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

But then you know, East Freely was the guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

You know, and just that the the extras of the the lights and the smoke and you know, shooting sparks at his guitar. I mean, nobody was doing anything remotely like that at the time.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Of course not. Um so I I you know, because we chatted offline about my experience at the Niagara Falls Convention Center, because you know, going there for the first time, my first concert, I walk in there and it was like the the biggest place I'd ever been in my life, you know. You know, it was you know it was just you know so uh over you know, the the stimulation with everything, the sights, the spells, the sounds, everything. Yeah. And then many, many years later, this is like 40 years later, uh, I was back visiting my parents and we went to Niagara Falls for the day, and I you know, they they had something going on in the Niagara Falls Convention, so like an arts and craft show or something. Right. I walked back in there and it was like so small. It was like, what? This is the place that I saw kiss. This was the place that you know overwhelmed my my my senses, right? And it was so small. It was maybe 2,500 seater, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

It just you know, the person the perspective we have when we're young and everything seems so big, it's really crazy to go back years later and realize how you know the reality of it.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah, but that that was the pivotal moment in my life seeing KISS that night. Yeah, and I knew from that moment forward that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be up there too, making noise, you know, shooting flames, whatever. Yeah, how I was gonna do it, you know, when I was 14 years old, but right, I knew that's what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

And uh what made the biggest difference from 14 to let's say 18? What made the big what made the biggest difference in launching you in that direction during those kind of formative years?

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yeah, I I think A, it was becoming a better guitar player and a better musician. You know, I started writing songs when I was 16, 17 years old, you know. Yeah, they were horrible, but they were still it was still the start of the creative process, right? You know, back then. So I think those years between 14 and 18, by the way, a little bit later on, I was exposed to other, you know, great Eddie Van Halen Van Halen came out in 78 when I was 16.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Right. And what was what was the impact? Because you know, you'd seen Kiss two years earlier, and Ace really, what was the impact when you first heard Van Halen?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Oh, it was just it was like this guy's from another planet. Yeah, you know. I mean, Ace really, you know, let's let's face it, he he's a great blues bass guitar player, yeah, but he does kind of play in a box, you know. Whereas Van Halen took that box and destroyed it. You know, there was no box for him, right? You know. Um, and the other guitar, well, and of course, you know, I try to emulate everybody got into the the finger tapping thing then and the whammy bar. So you know, because I was playing Les Paul's, and I'll you know, all of a sudden, you know, had to experiment with the whammy bar, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Well, you didn't have a whammy bar in your Les Paul, did you? No, no, no. I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yeah, but that's and again, that was uh that was around the the time all the custom guitar uh stuff started to happen.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Uh the other guitar player that really became a huge influence on me was Michael Shanker, yeah, who I was exposed to probably around the same time, 16, 17 years old, you know. Yeah for me, he was and still is, you know, he he he's like the on the Mount Rushmore guitar players for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Or his his melodicness, you know, oh yeah, fluidness, his speed and fluidity and melodicness, and you know, he he wrote a great riff too, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

So um and it's with guitar players, you know, some have such a melodic sensibility when you get to like a Neil Sean or Steve Lukather or Gary Richrath, you know, people who you could really sing the solos versus pyrotechnics. Um, who else would you put in that category of like the fluid melodic sing you could sing the solo kind of guitar player?

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Well, you you mentioned Gary Richrath, and interestingly enough, uh my high school band was Southern Rock based. It was called Southbound. So we were a lot of Skinnard, a lot of uh Ario Speedwagon, sure, you know, Marshall Tucker, um Outlaws. We did, you know, of course we had to do Greengrass and High Tides.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Uh so you know, Gary Richrath was very, very underrated. You know, he's agreed. Normtioned in like the you know the Mount Rushmores guitar player, uh guitar player, but he was fast, he was fluid, he had his own um sound to him, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah. And so you could I you could like I I as a buddy musician, he was one of the players where you know, when the solo came, yeah, you just kept singing the solo. You got done with the vocal part, and then the solo went, you know, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

So uh, you know, that cut that sense one more guitar player that came along in that period of time with melodicness, speed, fluidity, Gary Moore.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Yeah, I mean, Gary Moore, Parisian walkways, all that I mean, talk about melodicness, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah, you know, he he was like a guitar player's guitar player in some ways.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Yeah. So yeah, I I you know, between Schenker and you know, I was you know, the the the first three big guys to influence me were all the blues bass guys, Paige, Perry, and and Fraley. They were all Kiss Zeppelin and Arrow Smith, they're all Les Paul players for the most part. Right. Perry played a strat too, but um, those were the you know, those were the first three. And then as I mentioned, Schenker and Gary Moore and Judas Priest. Oh my god, Judas Priest and those guys came along, Priest, ACDC, and then Lizzie, that they were the kind of the next three that kind of shaped, you know, shaped my direction, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

So when when you were starting to see concerts and getting out more to shows, was there a band you went to see kind of thinking, I'll just go see this band that blew you away that you kind of didn't expect to be as good as they were gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Yeah, you know, it's funny. I saw EC DC as an opening band twice.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

And yeah, they I saw them twice as an openers, and yeah, that was one of them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Yeah, for sure. Uh of course they had the visual part of it with with Angus running around.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

But they just had that groove, man, and they just stripped it down to the bare, you know, the bare essence of rock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

How many riffs can you write in E? And you know, it sounds like, oh my God, that's so simple. Anybody could come up with it, but Malcolm, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah. So certain certainly they were they were a great surprise. I remember seeing them twice. Uh who I mean, I saw so many concerts back then. Now you mentioned Journey. I saw Journey in 78, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Yeah, 78. So it was pretty early on. That's before they were monstrous. They, you know. Yep. Uh and you mentioned Neil Sean, a great example of fluid speed, fluidity, oh yeah. You know, phrasing, all that stuff. Everything.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Just he has that there's a sensibility there that everything he does is just it's singable, you know. How about uh Randy Rhodes?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

You know, interest. It's you may find this surprising, but he he wasn't a huge influence on me. Now I saw Blizzard of Oz in '81. And uh, you know, by that time, I guess I'd already kind of you know, I think that album came out in 1980, if I'm if not mistaken.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

First album. So I don't recall really, you know, being, you know, uh studying him as much. You know, I I think for me it was Shankar already had it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

And I think there's there's some similarities in in that you know, both Shanker and Randy Rhodes were they had classical influence to them, right? Neoclassical uh influence to them. And I think by that time, you know, Shankar was my guy, you know, right? I'm not saying that, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm gonna discard Randy Rhodes, I'm not gonna without talent, his genius, his plan, whatever. It it's just that uh he wasn't he wasn't an influence on me as much as some of the other other guitar players that uh we just mentioned. So yeah, very interestingly enough, fast forward to 1984 when I got in Keel, yeah, and our second show with Kelly Rhodes was the opening act.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Wow, yeah, yeah. A small world, right? Yeah, so what year did you actually come out to LA? 84. 84, okay. So all the stuff that was happening here in 82, 83, the early Motley Crue and Rat and stuff, you were aware of that. And that probably probably drew you out, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Oh, of course. Yeah, I had this kind of interesting story how I find found my way to come come out west, but sure, you know, 82, 83, you had you know, all those great um metal health forefather LA bands had had indie releases, you know, Dawkins, Great White, Rat, Crew, you know, they all had indie releases before before they were signed, you know. Yeah, and I was well aware of it. And the other album that I had, which uh became kind of part of my story, was the Steeler album. Yeah, within they within that came out in '83. And I had uh made contact with Mike Varney. Um I made contact with Mike Varney in 1980 when I was still in high school. Wow. Yeah. I I tried to get in get in on his column, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

He featured, you know, two or three players every month in his guitar player uh column, and of course, a lot of famous guys have been featured in in that column.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah. I remember it, like Tony McAlpine and all those guys, you know. Ingve the shred column.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Yeah, Paul Gilbert, Billy Sheen. Um, but anyways, um for a holiday present in 1983, Mike Varney sends me a bunch of his albums, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Of which one of them was the Steeler album, you know. You know, and of course, I guess with Ingve, that's that's another example of someone that just kind of blew the doors off the rules or whatever. And yeah, you know, I guess you could make the argument that, you know, uh you know certain certainly, you know, there's Hendricks, there's there's Van Halen, and then Ingve for that style of music. He was the first guy to really bust the doors open. And maybe they were guys playing like him before, but they weren't they weren't brought to the forefront.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Right. Um it's it's interesting, those different styles of evolution through rock guitar. Who would you say in that early burgeoning metal scene was uh an underrated talent that's been a little forgotten? Like somebody that was just maybe they didn't have the songs or the vocalist, but man, they were a great player.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Well, we mentioned Gary Moore. Gary Moore didn't have a lot of commercial success in this country, right? But but over in Europe, he was, you know, obviously he was in Thin Lizzie. And he comes to mind right away. And I'm I'm sure there's a few others that I'm um forgetting right now because I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet. But uh, you know, I guess Gary Moore, you know, uh again here in the States, he he wasn't really widely recognized beyond the guitar player community.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Right. Right? I mean when you were hearing these early indie records from let's say Ratt and Motley Crue and a lot of the core sunset strip bands, were there any guitar players that stood out to you in in that realm where we were like, man, I can take these guys. I'm going to LA.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

This is well, interesting, you know, because you obviously with Great White and and Motley Crue, you got two blues-based guitar players and rat, you know, you've got Warren D Martini, you know, obviously one of the uh the greats. So uh I never thought I could quote unquote take any of them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I didn't mean take, but I mean like, you know, felt that you were at a level where you could come there and hang.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, I I I I felt by the time that I moved out here that I I had the skill set, you know, to uh throw my hat in the ring or and and compete. Uh but um I get I didn't have that opportunity until I got involved with Keel, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Right. So were you playing all the the Sunset Strip Clubs and that whole scene at that time in 84?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

So yeah, getting back to the Varney thing, uh thing I've I've mentioned this before in other interviews, how I got introduced to Ron Keel. Because I moved out to Los Angeles in early 84, and and I had a cover band back east. Um, and our game plan was to move the band, everybody moves out west, and then we become rock stars, just like everybody. Just like everybody, just like just it was that simple, right? You get off the bus and there's an AR guy right there. Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Sign you right away.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

So, anyways, uh move out to um three of the guys moved out a few months ahead of me. I spent the holidays uh with my folks. I moved out to January, January of 84, tried to get these guys, you know, our drummer didn't move out with us, so we had to find a drummer and try to motivate these guys, and it was just they were just into partying and going to the rainbow and you know, sleeping till two o'clock, that kind of thing. And they wound up moving back, all of them.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

And I decided to, you know, I wasn't going back to Boston, I wasn't from there. Right. But I I just knew, you know, there was so much energy in the city at that time. There was a scene there.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

In 84 was also the year the Olympics were coming to LA. It was just a lot of energy in the city. So I stuck it out. One day I'm up at the rainbow and I leave my jacket. I had a leather jacket that I had for a while, left it, left it on the seat, go up to take a piss, come back, the jacket's gone. Oh man. Oh man, right. You know, I guess my uh my you know my naivety wore off pretty quick there. So no, can't put your leather jacket uh on the seat. So anyway, true story. I'm down on Melrose looking for another jacket. I'm I'm in the store and I look look around, see this guy, and it's Mike Varney. Really? It was Mike Varney, and yeah, like I recognized him from his photos, you know, and I never met him before, you know. I'd spoken with him, but never met him, you know. And uh so that was the next fortuitous moment in my my life where and he and he knew you, he recognized you from yeah, well, I went up to him, you know, and um told him, hey, you know, I've been here in town for a bit and uh looking for something to do. My buddies are you know, my band I moved out here to join, uh, you know, evaporated on me. And he got me in touch with Ron Keel. It was around the same time that Ron was disbanding Steeler because Steeler had Steeler had been passed by multiple labels multiple times. It was a revolving door of musicians in that band. All great players, by the way. Mitch Perry was in there for a while. Yeah, he's a great player, of course. Absolutely, and so that's how that's how I got introduced to Ron.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Were there any other bands you auditioned for or could have auditioned for that kind of I'll get I'll get to another another little story here.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

It's funny you mentioned that because there's another one. Uh, anyways, so that was March of 84, and I actually went to the last Steelers show with him down in San Diego. And a month later, you know, uh, we're headlining Perkins Palace in Pasadena, our first show, which is in April of 84.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Right on. That's quick.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah, and then um, you know, Ron did have a following, you know. Uh he was uh he had a draw, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Did you have to play Steeler songs or did you have new material?

SPEAKER_02 22:25

You know, because we didn't didn't have a lot of uh Keel material.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

So you had to learn some Engve parts or yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Don't forget, Keel was a two-guitar player band. Right. The other guitar players, you know, were definitely more of that style. You know, um in our in our first, very first show at Perkins Palace, the other guitar player in the original lineup was this guy, David Michael Phillips, who went on to play in King Cobra.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

But he he left the band after our first show because he got an offer from King Cobra, I guess. And he was hedging his bets that you know Carmen Adams was uh uh you know an easier ticket ticket to uh the big time than Ron Keel, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

And yeah, well, we see how things turn out, you know. You never know.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, so then we uh we eventually uh landed on Brian, Brian J. Yep, and so he joined us for our second show, which is the uh the one that Kelly Rhodes opened up for.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

So nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

So but you know, once you know, keel happened very quickly, yeah, very, very quickly. So and by June of 84, so literally three months uh after I had met Ron, we uh recorded our debut album, Lay Down the Law, yeah, up in Kotati. And then we got signed in August of that year, two months later, wow signed in August and went back into the studio that month with Gene Simmons. So here it is. I'd been in Los Angeles less than seven months and had done two records, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

And you're in the studio with Gene Simmons, who from Niagara, you know, recording artists, and yeah, hanging out with the God of Thunder, sure. You know. What was your first meeting with hit with Gene like? Yeah, was it intimidating or was he it was, yeah, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

You know, we were all a little nervous, and you know, he he can come across not being the warmest of guys, you know, but he he does have a funny, silly side too. Like once you crack that shell a little bit, he he opened up. But yeah, certainly the first time we were nervous because we were playing for him, and you know, he's a big guy with a deep voice and very serious.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

So yeah. Uh one of his other finds that I love is that first Easy O record with Destroyer and Flashback Heart Attack. Sure. I remember some some good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I was more of an more of an Easy O fan than a Hurricane fan. Okay. My preference, the singer, the I don't know. There was something about those songs and the you know, but um, I I Gene Simmons obviously has his own career, but for him to sign bands and get out there and you know, with early Van Halen demos and you know, different things, I mean he definitely had his finger on the pulse and was looking for activity and opportunity, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Yeah, I think he had something to do with uh Cinderella too, if I if I remember correctly. I don't know, maybe he did, uh, even before Bon Jovi was involved.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

But uh, so anyways, that was you know, for for a kid from a small town farming community, you know, to you know, move to Los Angeles, and you know, you know, I went I went from zero to sixty pretty quickly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

What were your favorite uh venues in LA on the census strip to play at the time? Like what was the the club that just was the best?

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Well, we played, you know, we're funny, we didn't play the whiskey and we never played guizaris, and we we played yeah, we never played guzaris. We did play the troubadour, we played two nights at the troubadour, uh sold out.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

And then the the uh the other place that we played very frequently, not on the strip, was um uh what's the place in Resitah?

SPEAKER_00 26:16

That uh the Paladinos?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

No, no, no. Uh God, I'm drawing a blank now. Uh, anyways, it was a place in Pasadena, not um not Pasadena, I'm sorry. The Valley. Um, no, I know uh the Rosita. Yeah, I know. It's like why why why can't they pull movies there?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

That's where Boogie Nights was filmed, and yeah, yeah, it's pre- Country Club. Yes, the country club.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Country club. We played there like four times that year, including uh I remember Christmas '85. We played two shows that that day.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

I would think Azares would be a natural fit for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

For some reason, we never we just never did it.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

You know, we what what about the Starwood?

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Uh never played the Starwood either. I think the Starwood was done by '84. I'm pretty sure. Coconut teaser? I played the coconut teaser many years later, but not with Keel.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Ah. So yeah. That cold sweater medicine wheel or yeah, medicine wheel. Yeah. Nice. Well, let's um post-keel, um, you obviously, you know, split from keel at some point to move on to other things. Um, you know, not any dirty laundry. Uh, once you left keel and you were kind of looking to spread your wings, that was that exactly when cold sweat came into being, or did you have a period where you were kind of in between?

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Uh no, cold sweat uh started right after I left Keel. I I remember I did a um first uh uh uh round of demos like a couple of months after I left Keel. This would have been the spring of 1988. And uh no, I I I I knew, you know, I had some momentum, you know, coming off a band that had done four albums and toured with Bon Jovi and Best New Band and Circus Magazine and uh three or four of those magic. You know, this is a true story. Uh Keel beat out Bon Jovi and Iron Maiden for Best New Band in 1985 in some magazines. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, that was the last time our our name was ever above those guys' names.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

I mean, you know, say things flip and switch. I mean, I remember seeing Monsters of Rock and you know Metallica went on before docking.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

These things happen. So I'm gonna I'm gonna bring up my vinyl copy of Cold Sweat here just to break out of the of my record collection. Yeah, um, Chris McClernan, obviously somebody we have in common. Um, Chris played with Saigon Kick in the 90s, and I did some touring, my first tour as a keyboard player for Saigon Kick. So um, I got a good dose of Chris and his amazing sense of humor on the road.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

I remember he he and Phil Verone, the drummer, they did a radio show. I want to say it was in Houston, that they got the DJ going so far, I think he got fired. They just lured him over the edge. Was Chris always funny in the band back then?

SPEAKER_02 29:07

He was definitely the class clone. Uh the other guys in the band also were were were silly guys, you know. Um because I, you know, I've I've been accused of being too serious, you know. I don't know if too serious is the right word, but the right phrase. But you know, I've always been the business guy in all my bands, you know. And you know, I think in every band it's good to have some guy that's got their their finger on that part of it, you know. Uh oh, it's okay to go out and you know have a few beers and chase a few girls and everything, but you know when that becomes the whole job, it takes your eye off the ball. But in answer to your question, Chris was uh Chris was uh definitely a breath of fresh air, and as we both know, he's got a he's got a very unique sense of humor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Self-defense. Love that guy. So um when you were um young, you had a definition of success. And then once you came and got in the business, your definition of success probably changed, I would think. And then as you went through different stages, so uh when somebody's starting out, if you were talking to you know a young musician, how would you temper their idea of success? Like you're not gonna get off the bus and the A and R guy's gonna sign you. You know, what do you think is most important for somebody to have as a as a metric for their success beyond just financial or just a record deal?

SPEAKER_02 30:30

Yeah, and and and let's also um realize that today's success is different than it was back in the 80s.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

100%.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Because back then the whole goal was major label. Major label that's that that was the golden ticket. You know, that was that that was the thing that you were striving for was that major label deal. Because back then in the 70s or 80s, they had the muscle, they had the money, right? They had the promotion, they had the distribution means, but now that's been flipped, you know. And and anybody, you know, anybody with an iPad and a microphone, you know, can become an international star, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

So I I I think the uh the whole concept of success has changed. Right. I think now just having longevity, any kind of longevity is is uh maybe maybe a better measure of success, you know, because let's face it, a lot a lot of these, you know, even these influencers or internet stars, they come and go. You know, whereas when I grew up, you know, uh the bands that I listened to growing up, sometimes it took three or four albums to break a band. Yeah, face in point, you know, Journey. Journey had a bunch of albums before Steve Perry got in and Ario Speedwagon. Ario Speedwag. I mean, I mean I think most bands.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

I mean, you you had the occasional band like Boston that came out and sold 15 million albums, right? You know, but back back in the 70s and into the early 80s, it was all about building. Yeah, it was all about building that foundation and then building on that foundation. You toured every year, yeah. Hopefully played slightly bigger venues, uh, you know, sold slightly more albums, but but the record companies in general would give you three, four albums to develop, right? That doesn't happen anymore. So I think yeah, I think maybe today the the goal of anybody is is is maybe just trying to hang in there past the third inning, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Okay, yeah. So what you were uniquely in the rock scene when we got into the 90s and Nirvana came out and kind of almost dropped a bomb on everybody because that style was something that if you were an 80s glam metal band, if you were to change and try to adapt to that style, it was almost you you couldn't do it. And if you were to stay the same, that style almost rendered it, you know, comically passe. Right. And a lot of bands had trouble crossing that barrier. I also like to mention that Jane's Addiction, who the first album came out, I think in 88, was also a big crossing point that a lot of bands didn't, you know, go with and were weren't influenced by them, and some could kind of get past that. Um, Sagon Kick, I think, was a band that had a lot of post-Jane's addiction influence, but um that one ballad sucked him into the hair metal label. So how how did you, when you were making music, how did you see Nirvana and the grunge movement uh hit uh in terms of the music you were making and what was popular at the time?

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Well, I certainly was one of the dinosaurs that got uh hit by the asteroid, uh, you know, the grunge movement asteroid, you know. Yeah um first of all, I don't want to go on record saying that I that I I liked some of those bands. Yeah, I think like any other genre, towards the end, there there was just a lot of them that kind of started sounding similar to me, but certain but certainly Soundgarden, because they had that Sabbath influence. I like Soundgarden, you know. You can tell those guys were you know heavily into Sabbath, right? Yeah, and you know, certainly Alice and Chains had a little bit of that Sabbath, and they had those layered vocals, and so I I like those two bands, but um to answer your question, you know, it was I think it was time for a change. Let's face it, by 1980, you know, late late 80s, early 90s, there were a hundred hair bands out there that were generically similar, a lot of them you couldn't tell apart from each other, and I get it, you know, I it was it was time for a change, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, um, so do you think do you think any bands successfully transitioned musically to the 90s that they they escaped that label or that stereotypes?

SPEAKER_02 34:58

You know, it's interesting. You know, I toured with Queens Reich. I I think they were so unique, and they they were they they kind of had I don't know if grunge was the right word, but you know, they they were darker, yeah, they were darker to be. I don't even know if those guys have recorded a song on a major key in their whole career. I don't know. But you know, we toured with Queen's Reich. I love those guys, and to me, they kind of were one of those bands that just kind of went through, you know, they were two-phazed by it. Whereas some of the the popular commercial bands, the warrants, the poisons, yeah, you know, had a hard time. They had a hard time. You can make the argument that you know Aerol Smith had resurrected their career in the later. But were they they weren't really considered part of the hair metal? Yeah, they were already, they were already entrenched, they were already one of the biggest bands of the 70s, anyways. Totally. So there were some bands that were able to kind of hang in there and ride the ride out the storm, ride in.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

King King's X, I think. What but there's a band that was unique enough that when music transitioned, they just kept doing what they did, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Well, King's X King's X is one of my favorite bands of all time, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

I remember hearing that first album the first time, I'm like, what the fuck, you know, yeah, what's this?

SPEAKER_00 36:16

You know, out of the silent planet, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah, it was like Metallica meets the Beatles, meets the Bee Gees, meets you know everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Um, what so we I want to circle back to Black Sabbath. I think the first, let's say, two decades of Black Sabbath's career, they were not necessarily seen as the Godfathers of metal, the touchstones, until really that grunge movement, like you were saying, brought Sabbath and even like the heavier Neil Young stuff as, you know, they were like, these are our roots. And people are like, oh, I that makes sense now, you know, and Black Sabbath, I think, became the Godfathers, but um, you know, during the whole period, you know, they were popular and had popularity. I don't think they were seen as the influence they really be became.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

I think it took a little time for uh you know for for the general public to come around to the fact that these guys these guys were the the headwaters of metal, you know. Yeah, them and priest, but Sabbath came Sat Sabbath was out before Priest.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

First Sabbath album was 1970.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

If uh so and Zeppelin was tagged as metal, but they weren't really same with Deep Purple.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

I mean, Deep Purple, yeah, you know, metal, blues metal, yeah. Heavy rock.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Um, yeah, it's uh and it's always interesting. There's certain bands, you know, Led Zeppelin or Van Halen, where they're rock bands, but they have, you know, Van Halen has Big Bad Bill and all these different textures that, yes, they're a rock band, and yes, they rock as hard as anybody else, but there's more to the music here than just the rock. And it's interesting that some bands are able to expand within their sound and thereby release themselves a little bit from whatever genre people are trying to attach to them. Um, are there other bands that you would say fall into that category where they kind of expanded beyond just one thing, and that's what made them so iconic?

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Uh uh, that's an interesting question. I have to give that some thought. But it did it did trigger another um uh you mentioned about bands that kind of just went through, you know, without having ACDC and Iron Maiden, both of those guys stuck to guns, plowed through that whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

They were and maybe scorpions too. I don't know. The scorpions might have might have been impacted a little bit more by the grunge scene, but certainly Maiden and Priest Man, they did their thing and they got bigger. Yes, agreed. They got bigger, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

They say and then Metallica, you know, with the black album, they they changed, but you know, they they're still they still play the old stuff just as well. And you know, uh it's hard because sometimes, you know, they do something like that, and then the older fans say, Oh, now they're you know, they've sold out, but then you put on the black album, you're like, you know, this is actually pretty good stuff. Um, it's it's interesting to see like uh another conversation would be bands that hit the 80s and changed their sound and adapted and were successful with it, like Yes with 90125 or Rush with Signals, Great Center Pressure Power Windows, um, the police going from Outlandos to Ghost in the Machine. Are there bands that you were uh a fan of or were aware of that made that transition and did something different in the 80s that to you stood stood out?

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Well, you mentioned, you know, it's funny, you I think you mentioned a couple of the best examples. I would have, you know, rush certainly, you know, they stopped uh they stopped those 12-minute songs, you know, maybe many of those 12-minute songs that took up all of side two, you know. Yeah, and you had they did have some commercial success with Spirit of the Radio and Tom Sawyer. Yeah, Tom Sawyer, of course, uh, you know, and a few other singles. Um yeah, I I I think those are are are two, you know, two really good examples that you mentioned, you know. Yeah, and again, I'm I'm sure I'm forgetting about a few that we could put in that same general category of bands that you know tr try to you know change with the times without you know being you know overtly um different from what they really are, you know. Yeah, so let me ask you uh look even Deep Purple. Well, let's let's talk to Purple because you know they had uh a couple uh couple of singles.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Perfect strangers, perfect strangers, nobody's home, knocking at your back door, right? Yeah, yeah, that was and so you know, when in the 80s, you knew these bands like Deep Purple and David Bowie had a past, but you might not have been, you know, watching videos on MTV so aware of that past. So David Bowie with Let's Dance or you know, Nobody's Home or whatever. You you might get into it, and then it took you time to kind of dig back and oh wow, this early stuff is different, you know, because at that point they had they had morphed and changed a little bit, so you had to almost get used to what they started with, you know.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Well, you know, I think also you know, the bigger MTV got the more influence it had on certain bands to kind of just let's can we move it just a little bit here so we can maybe get in that spotlight, you know. I think you know, Rainbow is another example, you know, they were definitely a little more gothic heavy. Yeah, that all of a sudden it's since you've been gone and you know, uh a few other pop hits. So I think there was probably you know that there was some of that going on where they people just wanted to shift just a little bit, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yeah, and get a and get a hit because you know you can make albums all day long, but if you weren't catching fire, if you weren't on the radio on MTV, and I know in that 80s period, you know, to get on Headbanger's Ball or to get on a video on MTV could mean the the difference, you know, it could make the entire difference. Um, were there bands that you became familiar with via MTV where you saw a video and you're like, oh my gosh, that you know, or were you sister or Twisted Sister, I think.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Well, I was I was vaguely familiar with Twisted Sister, you know, because I was living in New York, yeah. Uh in the Boston or you know, as early as 82, I think, 83. But certainly Twisted Sister became one of those bands that um certainly were were video driven.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah, you know. Big time.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Yeah, big time. And uh it didn't do too much harm for their career, I don't think. I think you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

I mean, Mike, uh you still you put that on, you know, the we're not gonna take it video for any kid, and they love it. You know, it still has that, like he's taking mom and dad to town, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yeah, well, I I think probably uh stylistically the right to rock video bored pretty heavy, pretty heavy from that storyboard, you know, about the kid with the radio and you know going against the authorities and that kind of thing. The kid's the hero, you know. Right, of course.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

That's why, well, you know, you're you're appealing to you know, kids in small towns out there dreaming about, you know, the big rock and roll life and coming to the city, and you know, you you put in your tape of the kiss interview where Paul Stanley's in bed surrounded by all these women, and you're like, all right, something's going on out there. I gotta get out there. Um, so um uh some questions that I like to ask are there records that you love that generally have terrible production, but you just love them anyway.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Oh yeah, well, yeah, I mean I mean, certain certainly some of those early Thin Lizzie albums, you know, in production, you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Well, you know, um, and I'm talking, um, you know, uh Johnny the Fox and um uh the some of those albums, Nightlife and stuff. Yeah, thin sounding. Uh some of those, some of those, yeah, uh even the the the first Kiss albums, you know, yeah, those those songs that became such um concert classics on Kiss Alive One, you listen to the original recordings, they're like that's the same. Yeah. Yeah. Um, while we're talking about live albums, Frampton Comes Alive was a big touchstone for me.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

And um I had if you listen to some of the the early Frampton albums, the live versions and recordings are just so much energetic and just brings life to, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Same thing with Cheap Trick at Boudicon.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

You know, I want you to want me on record, is not the excitement of the live album.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Yeah. So I think there's there's probably plenty of examples of albums certainly from the 70s that production value come now and listen to albums that are produced now, it's like you know, night and day.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah, but it's, you know, I guess it's nostalgia or it just hit you at a certain time, or you listened on cassette or whatever it was. Um, that it just, you know, the music still holds that that something for you that you're like, I generally I know this is very dated production, but I still like it. What can I say?

SPEAKER_02 44:53

Even those old ACDC albums are very, very dry. Yeah, but that the the one thing about that kind of production is you hear all the instruments, they're separated so much. Like now a lot, a lot of albums are swimming in reverb, you know. It's back then you you can hear like the pick scrapes, and you you know, you can hear all that, yeah. All that, even yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

That was the good stuff. Um, I I love talking about um records and songs and stuff. What would be a song that you waited to hear on the radio? Like you were you had to wait back in the day. People nowadays don't understand. You wanted to hear a song and it was going to be on the radio, you had to sit and wait, maybe with a cassette player ready to tape it, you know. Um what would be a song you waited to hear on the radio?

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Oh my god, there's probably so many of them. You know, obviously, you know, when I when I was 14, 15, it was the the kiss stuff, rock and all later, cat scratch fever, you know. Yeah, uh, you know, yeah, definitely in the nutent there for a while because you know, he was larger than life, you know. Oh yeah, you know, and uh, you know, some some of those other, you know, um maybe maybe well highway to hell was until 1979, I think, but certainly I remember because they were playing uh songs with the word hell in it a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

That one music was satanic. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

But probably you know, certain certainly the those examples that I mentioned, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Yeah. Um what what's a hardship that you overcame that taught you a lot and and and made you who you are?

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Well, you know, I think I'm I'm I feel pretty fortunate that I, you know, I didn't have any physical, you know, it's not like I was born with uh something physical that I had to overcome. Yeah, I didn't have to overcome uh abject poverty, or I didn't have to uh uh overcome, you know, a crappy home life. I came from a good family, you know. So you know, I I guess there really wasn't too much I felt that I I had to, you know, really quote quote unquote overcome or only so how about a different question?

SPEAKER_00 47:11

How about um a mistake that taught you more than success could have?

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Yeah, uh well, maybe not um not maybe putting all my eggs in one basket. Now I I wanted to you you asked a question earlier about auditioning for other people. So I want to circle back to that. Please because after the first Keel show in April of 84, Ron announced that he was joining Black that he got the gig for Black Sabbath. What? Yes, this is all true, you can research this. He uh Wow Yeah, and actually uh a couple of Black Sabbath guys were at our first show, and so we were all scrambling, okay. You know, we just you know just rehearsed a month solid, you know, sold-out show, Perkins Palace. Right. You're breaking up the band after one show. What am I gonna do? You know, yeah. So I found out that Lita Ford was auditioning uh for guitar player, right? Wow. So I got an audition for Lita, you know, of course, was very familiar with her. I yeah, I think she already had a one album out in '83 or '84 that had a single. Was this before Mitch Perry played? Oh, yeah. So this was this would have been '84. So well before Mitch. And you know, this was a salaried gig, you know, and she was ready to go to Europe. And I'm like, oh my god, I want this gig so bad, you know.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

I went down there dressing, I had leather pants on, I look like Joe Perry. And uh she uh um she liked me, but her manager wanted somebody to play keyboards as well, so they could save a salary and play keyboards. Uh lost on that gig. But yeah, still we still joke about that when I see her, you know.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Yeah, that's all right. She's still making her career out there, she's still uh out doing it.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

And then, you know, like three weeks later, Ron's out of Black Sabbath, and we kind of we just kind of uh picked up where we left off, you know. Was that before like Ian Gillen and Born Again and all that? You know, I'm not sure of the time frame because Sabbath was going through a lot of singers. It was Tony Martin for a while. There was Ian Gillen, as you know. Ray Ray Gillen, no relation. Ray Gillen, Ian Gillen. Did you ever see Badlands back in the day? Not only did I see them, we Cole Sweat did a number of dates with them, and we we rehearsed next door to them for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Oh man. What a singer that guy was.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Oh, yeah, for sure. And you know, the bass player in Badlands was the brother of Kenny Chason from Kiel.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Oh, okay. Greg Chase.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Greg Chason.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Yeah, yeah. So you had a lot of cross-pollination.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

We we love Badlands because they were like, you know, they were like the the 90s Zeppelin, you know. Yeah, yeah. So good. And I'll yeah, all four of those guys, of course, uh Eric Singer, Eric Singer on drums, and Ray Gillen, as you mentioned, what a voice, what a look, you know.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

And then Jake Lee on guitar, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

No slouch there either.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

No, post Aussie. And I think you know, a band like Badlands has disappeared from the public consciousness. And those who know obviously know, but um, there's a lot of bands like that that I felt were really, really good. Maybe had one album and disappeared. Um, you remember a band called Catman Do? No, you got me there. No, that's you know, so like one album and then gone. But you know, that one album or that one period of time, there was a little magic there. Are there other bands like that for you that you heard in the 80s were played with or jammed with that had that one moment and then gone?

SPEAKER_02 50:52

But that that one album still kind of Kingdom Come is certainly what a band in that category. What love can be. Yeah, they had that one, they had that one get it on. Yeah, and they were tour, they were they were on the Monsters of Rock tour there.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

I think the singer Lenny Wolf uh organized the Monsters of Rock. I think that was his baby. It may have been. I I don't know. Something about that. They went on first.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

But yeah, you're you're you know, you you asked about bands that had that they were they were other bands, I'm sure, that had like, you know, I guess maybe you could say the same for for Saigon Kick, right? You had that one huge hit.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Yeah, Love Is On the Way. They had the for those first two records. The first one was Michael Wagner produced, and then The Lizard, and then Matt left. And yeah, those so yeah, there's you know, there's certain bands like that that they just had a moment, and I still put on like that easy o record. I'll still I'll still put that on because I love the music, you know. Of all the bands I want to reunite for the monsters of rock cruise or whatever. Come on, Easy O. Uh, so are are there records from the the 80s from that era that you still regularly put on for your own pleasure?

SPEAKER_02 52:00

And you know, I I'll give give you some of my guilty pleasures, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Uh nothing's guilty here. I I want to hear all your pleasures.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

I got you know, first time I heard Sarah McLaughlin, I was like, it was just something emotional, uh, her first album, but that was until 94. So right. But uh there was something I really connected with uh that's that side of me, you know, the more the singer-songwriter side. And I I got into a little bit later, Elliot Smith. Uh oh yeah, you know, just what a beautiful, tortured soul he was, you know. Perfectly put. Who I continue to listen to all the time. Yeah. Uh, you know, um Jeff Buckley, you know, and just just kind of tragically, three of my favorite male singer-songwriters all died, you know, way too young.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

You know, from different circumstances. But um, so that I got it got into that. Uh still into that side of things.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

And uh so what was what was the first guitar player outside of the rock realm that really caught you?

SPEAKER_02 53:12

Well, uh first of all, uh you're talking about first, I saw Segovia when I was like when I was uh 10, 11, and 12 or 12. Oh cool. And so and I still play classical guitar. I met him twice. I met him at the show, and I got my my program book autographed by him. That's cool. So but if you're saying the first guitar player of any kind, it was certainly you know, um Segovia. And I remember seeing Jazz great Charlie Bird, you know, wow when I was really young. Jose Feliciano is a good guitar player in his own right, you know. Uh BB King. Now, these are all concerts my parents took me to like formative years, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

But when watching a guy like Segovia play, did it make you say, Oh my gosh, I want to do that, or were you just like, wow, this is mesmerizing?

SPEAKER_02 53:59

My gosh, I can't do that.

unknown 54:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

I I've seen piano players like that where I'm like, all right.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

Yeah. I I, you know, by the time I saw Segovia, I already saw Kiss the same year.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

So that's a good balance right there.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

I went down that path. I went down the Kiss path rather than the Segovia path.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

When when you were on your about outside of your parents taking you to stuff, did you gravitate to any, you know, before you got into Sarah McLaughlin or Elliot Smith, you know, there was a period where you were very much into rock and roll, but were there other guitar players that you know specifically you were at least aware of or that you kind of drew from a little bit outside of the rock realm, whether it's jazz or blues or yeah, certainly some of the jazz players.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Um, I mentioned Charlie Byrd, and you know, and a few of those that uh Kessel, Barney Kessel, and a few others um that you know, even Chad Atkins. I mean, I remember like oh man, Chad like people forget about Chad Atkins, but that guy was a monster, you know. Monster. Even Glenn Campbell. I mean, you know, who was you know one of the the the big crew back, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

So you know, all those guys, I mean, you know, uh Jerry Reed and Roy Clark and you know, stuff you'd see on Hee-Haw, and it looks so casual, and that you walk you watch back now and you're like, that was not casual at all. They just looked really comfortable doing it.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

That's right. So I like to I like to think, you know, I I was exposed to a lot of different types of music when I was young.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

You know, I thank my parents for that, but they knew they knew I was a music guy very early, you know. Right. By the way, I started teaching guitar when I was 13, 14. So that's how I supported myself. Yeah. That was my you know, my uh uh my milk money.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Um and I know you I know you wrote a column for a while in one of the music magazines, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Yeah, it was in Metal Edge, it was the uh instrument column. Uh, I think it was called Power Source. I've something like that. But yeah, no, I my job was to um sift through uh all the different um uh um equipment reviews that came in, you know, equip, you know, right releases, pick a few each month and you know, condense it into uh an easily uh readable column.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

That's cool. Uh but hey, look, it's interesting. I wrote for a keyboard magazine for years, so it's interesting, and it also gets you into a realm where you're connecting and contacting and talking to people. And uh were you able to meet anybody through the magazine that you hadn't in person yet?

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Uh not really. I don't recall that opening up uh doors that weren't already open up for me. Yeah, but I did write I've written two books, you know. First of all, Rockstar 101, which came out, needs to be updated because it came out in 2000. How much has happened? Yeah, and so much has happened uh since then. But it was the first book written by uh a recording artist.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Yeah. And of all the things in that book, is there anything that now has been rendered wrong or irrelevant that back then was sage and good advice?

SPEAKER_02 57:10

I think the I think a lot of the underlying business advice, you know, about you know building a team, certainly not signing anything unless you've had somebody have you know, uh a music industry attorney, not like a real estate attorney, right? You know, have a look at a contract for you, that that's still valid. Yeah, but I remember I had like these tips, you know, tips on being on the road, and back then, before cell phones, you know, there were a couple times I just go off partying with people and not know where I was, you know, wind up in another town or whatever. And so I was always like, you know, make sure to bring the business card of the hotel that you're at and make sure you have change with you so you can make it. And you read it now, it's silly, you know. But then and it in the in the 80s, that's how it was. Yeah, funny story about our guitar player Brian. This is funny. He wound up, he wound up going out, you know, with some girls or whatever. And he literally, we did not know where he was for a day, and we had, you know, we we had to leave. The tour bus left without him. Oh man. We were going to our next show, opening for Bon Jovi somewhere, and literally he didn't show up till that afternoon. And we had no way, you know, there were no cell phones back then. There was no way to get a hold of anybody other than like calling the production office who had that number cell phone.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

I love that. So Mark, the most I love this conversation, and um I we could do a part two anytime, but I really so appreciate your time and hearing about all of the things that kind of made you who you are. And uh I didn't even get into you hiking up in the Himalayas and Mount Everest or all the places you've been, but um in another story we'll uh we'll get to all that, the non musical things. Um, but I I really I so appreciate everything, and um, I look forward to seeing you in person again sometime soon.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

You will be seeing me sooner than you think.

unknown 59:12

All right.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

Well, thank you so much. Have a great day, and I will talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

All right, thanks, Robin.