The Curious Musician
Hi I'm Robbie Gennet. I like to chat with people about curiosity, imagination and creativity. I also love exploring credits on vinyl albums and discussing the music and history of the players, arrangers and producers. Join me!
The Curious Musician
The Curious Musician Interview: Keith England
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Greetings and welcome to The Curious Musician! This is a space where we will explore creativity and curiosity by interviewing a host of interesting and notable people for chewy conversations and some great concert stories too.
In today's episode I am joined by singer and all around great dude Keith England, whose golden pipes have hit the stage with The Allman Brothers Band and Montrose, among many others. Keith's had an epic rock and roll journey which continues today, still kicking it out there! Enjoy the episode and stay tuned for more!
Link up at www.instagram.com/the.curiousmusician and YouTube!
All right. Hello, everybody. Robbie Jeanette here with Keith England. I met Keith. I gotta say, you're what they call a mensch. After my house burned down, certain people reached out to me, and Keith was a guy that I had known from the Ultimate Jam night and reached out and said, Hey, I got some clothes. If you need some clothes, I met him in Hollywood, and he was nice enough to gift me a bunch of cool stuff, including an Eat a Peach t-shirt, which we'll get to the Allman Brothers. So my first uh genuine hang with you was uh humanity, empathy, and I really got a feel for the warm and generous person you are offstage.
SPEAKER_00So well man, you know, I I I was I was happy to help. I wasn't happy about the circumstances, but I was certainly more than happy to help, and it was an honor to, you know, give you give you at least a little something, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. Uh it meant it meant a lot to me, still means a lot to me. So um, but I've known you uh singing on stage as this guy who um had spun sung with the Allman Brothers uh mantros, and also was just at every time you every time you got up, every different song, whether it was Alice Cooper, whatever it was, you were given your 110% and really killing. And I was really always impressed with what you brought in terms of energy and your voice. So I I wanted to talk to you about music and how you got to be musical. So let me go all the way back to your childhood. What would be a song that you like your parents would have remembered you singing, like a first song that kind of caught you that you were singing?
SPEAKER_00You know, it's uh um I I age myself whether I want to or not. So um, you know, um I would say probably uh I would trace it back to uh Ricky Nelson. Uh Hello Mary Lou was the first single that I bought, first 45 I ever bought. I was uh way before the Beatles, you know, I was parked in front of the TV at the end of Ozzy and Harriet when Ricky would always do a song, and I would have my little Roy Rogers guitar and Panamime and LipSync. And uh Hello Mary Lou goes back as far as it goes for me. I mean, here in my dad's Frank Sinatra records and stuff like that, musically, probably my music earliest musical memory would have been Dave Brubeck's Take Five. Nice, uh, which was which was new at that point. So uh my dad had the record, my dad was a musician as well, and and uh uh jazz musician auto. So what did your dad play? I grew up listening to that, but my first actual musical thing was Ricky Nelson, Hello Mary Lou. I just recently found out that was actually the B side of that single. The actual A side was Traveling Man, which was great too. Yeah, but Hello Mary Lou. And I found out the other day too. I did a deep dive in that song, and uh Gene Pitney wrote it. Okay. Yeah, so I mean it's it I mean it had James Burton on it. It was like you know, uh pretty good taste for a little kid, you know. Yeah, for sure. Uh that was that's as far back as it would go as far as buying records, listening to music and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01How about how about singing? What's the first song that you sang where you you felt like really like it fit your voice?
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, I couldn't really tell. I did a lot of lip syncing and singing into the hairbrush and stuff like that, but I wasn't actually singing. Um, the first time anybody took notice of my singing, I was um I was riding around a car with a bunch of older kids. I was probably 12, 13, they were obviously old enough to drive. Yeah, I'm sitting in the backseat, and the song Groovin by the Rascals came on. Yeah. And when I was 12, 13, I looked like Ernie from my three sons. I had the glasses, the little short haircut. I did not look at all mature or or but I still had this voice. And I'm in the backseat of the car, and I'm like, Groovin on a Sunday afternoon, and these kids all looked around me and said, Was that you? And I'm like, Yeah, was that okay? And they're like, Yeah, that was really okay. So that was the first time I actually sang and someone noticed and said, Hey, you sound good. That's cool. Um, first time I sang with a band was it would have been 15, 16, and uh I was the guy at the party that was doing Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart, lip syncing, jumping around like crazy. Cool. And uh there was again some older kids that had a band, literal garage band. And uh one of the guys said, Man, if you can sing at all, you'd be really good at this. And I'm like, Okay, you he goes, Come. So I literally went to the garage. Yep, um, these guys were playing, it sounded great. They plugged a microphone into the bass amp while the bass was playing, also, and uh and I sang jumpin' jack flash. Nice, and it was that was it. That was it. You were hooked. I mean, it was all over for me when I saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, but but to actually physically do it myself, that was it.
SPEAKER_01So describe the watching the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. Had you you had been aware of the music, but you hadn't seen them, right?
SPEAKER_00I had. I had a friend, I was in Fort Lauderdale, and uh I had a friend whose grandmother was a New Yorker, and she brought she had brought the I Wanna Hold Your Hand OSAR standing there single to him a couple months, I think for Christmas. So that was February of 64. Yeah, I think it was Christmas of 63, that the first time I heard it. And we were both, you know, Ricky Nelson fanatics, right? And all of a sudden it was like, wait a minute, what the fuck is this? And we were we were, and of course, the picture on the cover, you know, the one with they got the collarless coats and Paul McCartney smoking. So my friend wanted to be Paul. We were, of course, we had to play Beatles immediately. Right. I want to be Paul because he thought it was cool that he was smoking. I'm like, cool, I'll be John, that's fine. Yeah, and uh, but yeah, that that was it. And then then a couple months later, that February, it was like they're gonna be on Sullivan, and we're like glued to the TV, and that was it.
SPEAKER_01That was an event, nothing.
SPEAKER_00I'm not doing anything else.
SPEAKER_01And people people really don't understand back in the day. I mean, you had to wait to see something. It's not everything now is on demand, but yeah, exactly. And even back in the days of radio, you know, Pete, you'd sit with a cassette to tape, wait for a song to appear so you could tape it off the radio, you know?
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Did you used to do that? I did, I did. I used to tape stuff off the what would be a s what would be a song you would tape off the radio?
SPEAKER_00Oh you'd wait, wait for like women, Monkey Tonk Women, uh, Led Zeppelin. I mean, I had the records, but it was something about getting it off the radio too. That was just like it felt kind of subversive and like you were, hey, I've got this. This is mine. And of course it sounded like shit. You know, a little cassette on the the radio itself, without the recording, it sounded like crap. Right. You know, so then making a second generation on an old cassette machine or something.
SPEAKER_01It sounded awful, but it was still, it was that it was but that communal idea that we're all listening to the same song at the same time, nowadays with everybody in their ear pods, everybody's having this unique individualized experience. But that communal experience, which you know, you could still turn on the radio and feel that um that was something. It really meant like you were connected to people. So if you're listening to that station and everybody heard that new Led Zeppelin song or whatever at the time, those are the cool kids. If you listen to that station, you wouldn't have had that at all. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then, you know, even even into like MTV, you know, you you call your friend, are you watching this?
SPEAKER_01You know. And when MTV came in, and I wanna, I don't wanna, I don't want to get too far ahead, I want to backtrack a little bit, but when MTV came in, you know, certain bands they broke because of MTV. They broke because of the image. And before that, you know, in the 70s, yes, bands had image. Yeah, you'd see pictures and whatnot, but it wasn't so much about the video and the video image. So um what band would you say when MTV came in that you saw? And based on image alone, you were like, wow, this is rad.
SPEAKER_00Uh the police for sure. The police thing's cheekbones were just like, really? You know, and and the music was cool, it was different. Um so I mean, I wasn't huge MTV, I was still records and I was outperforming and stuff, but yeah, I remember very well when it first came on and watching it, and it was like, Really? You're gonna have this 24 hours a day, and it, you know, they had a good run. So did you used to watch Don Kirschner or Night Flight? Oh, sure, sure. Don Kirschhner and um uh what was it Friday? There was one on Friday night, uh Rock Rock, Don Kirschhner's Rock concert. Yep. Um did you see another one?
SPEAKER_01Uh did you see certain bands in because that was mostly live performances, right? Yeah, yeah, and they actually played. Yeah, so they were what what would be some of the bands that you were exposed to via watching, like seeing them on TV after the Beatles, obviously when Don Kirchhner came on and stuff like that. There were certain you tune in late night, see some performances.
SPEAKER_00I remember I remember Johnny Winner, uh, I remember a Billy Preston on on Rock Con on in concert, is what it was called. Billy Preston, and he had Jeff Beck sitting in. Yeah. And it was it was just like, what? You know, because Billy Preston by that point had grown his hair, his afro out. Billy Preston was just like so cool. So I remember that. Um Almond Brothers, I saw them, you know, a couple of times on those shows. Um, of course, little did I know, you know, right within five or six years, you know. So a lot of those shows. Fog hat, remember Fog Hat was great. I saw them on some show. Of course, Bowie. Yep.
SPEAKER_01You know, but so did you start going to concerts when you were young? Did your parents take you to any music, or was it basically once you were a teenager and you started to go to shows?
SPEAKER_00I went to one concert. My mom took me in 1965. My mom and my best friend's mom took us in Fort Lauderdale, the old baseball stadium, to see the Dave Clark Five. Oh, cool. And it was sort of consolation prize because we didn't get to go see the Beatles a few months before in Miami. Miami was too far to go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it was like, well, and by this point, I we we like the Dave Clark Five. Okay, that's cool. Close enough. It wasn't the Beatles, but it was it was amazing. That's awesome. And so the girls were screaming, and and and you know, at that point we we knew the Dave Clark Five material really well, too. So right on.
SPEAKER_01Uh what's right? So when you started going to shows on your own, like as a teenager, what were the first shows that you saw? And did you know the music ahead of time, or were you taken by somebody that just said, hey, trust me, this is gonna be great.
SPEAKER_00Uh the first show I that I went to, the first concert I went to with my older cousin who could drive, I was 15. And it was the Beach Boys in Atlanta. But it was the Beach Boys during their like surfs up phase. So they were kind of it was more of hippies and and you know, pretty cool lyrics. Van Dyke Parks was writing all their lyrics at that point. Um, and we didn't know that Mike Love was a fascist, so uh was that it was it was amazing, but it was the Beach Boys. This was in Atlanta, right? Beach Boys were the headliners, Mother's Finest was the middle act. Their record had just come out, and of course they were local Atlanta group, so we were all crazy about them. And the opening act was this young guy named Bruce Springsteen. Oh, how cool! And his second record, uh, The Wild the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle had just come out. Nobody had any idea who he was. I mean, there may have been people here that knew him, but none of us knew, and we're just like, who's this guy? And he was in his still Maynard G Krebs phase. He was skinny and he had the goatee. Yep. I'll ever forget he was wearing this black leotard shirt, and this is so not Springsteen, right? Black Leotard, skinny black Leotard shirt with Elvis and Rhinestones across the chest. And uh, and none of us knew who he was. 45 minutes later, none of us would ever forget him. It was unbelievable. It was the original E Street band, yeah. David Sanchez on keyboards, yep, both keyboards. David Sanchez was one of them, and just phenomenal. And it was that was a big point in my life as well, because I was like, Yeah, you know, and he just he had everyone, every single person by the balls or by the you know what, for 45 minutes, and then he left, and everybody was just uh all our jaws were on the floor. So that was my very first concert on my own. The first act I saw was Bruce Springsteen.
SPEAKER_01That's so cool. And you know, it probably gives you the idea at that time, like, you know, if you're the opener, you got something to prove, and if you go out and you deliver, I back in I grew up in Florida as well. I had a lot of older friends that had gone to see Black Sabbath at the High Life Fronton, and this new band called Van Halen that nobody had heard of opened, and by the end of the Van Halen set, everybody was like Black Sabbath who, you know? Never forget them after that. Right. What's another uh opening act that you might have seen that just blew doors that you didn't expect was going to hit you like that?
SPEAKER_00Uh well that was one. Uh Jay Giles. I I forget who they opened for, but Jay Giles, and I was familiar with him, but I I had no idea what their live performances were like. Yeah, and uh Peter Wolf, man. Peter Wolf, to this day I haven't figured out how he did it, but he did this move where he would run across the stage and he'd like pole vault with his mic stand. Wow. I've tried it a couple times, ended up on my ass. I don't know how he did it. Uh, someone told me one one reason he was able to do it is because he's really tiny. Yeah. And I was pretty tiny then too, but 20 years and 20 pounds ago, but I could never figure out, and I'd look and he had the it would be a a round metal stand mic stand. He would plant that thing and then pole vault another 10, 20 feet across the stage. Amazing in time. Yeah. And he'd come back in singing. He was Peter Peter Wolf's one of the greatest of all time I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_01And I think you know, we if you if you came up in the MTV era, you knew them from the centerfold and freeze frame stuff, but all that 70s. Like full house, Jake Isles, Full House Live, kind of way before the yeah, the MTV stuff. And it's interesting because there's they're not the only band that you know like transitioned into the MTV era and became kind of stars to a new generation. So Z Top, same thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I saw I saw Z Top like Trey Zombre's you know, era and uh and they were just incredible. And they I forget who they opened for, but that was another opener that was like, holy shit. But uh Jake Bells, I remember. Um Leonard Skinner opened for the Who in Atlanta, wow Quadrafinia Tour. Wow, I was lucky. My first three concerts were then the Beach Boys, second concert was Almond Brothers at Atlanta Stadium, third concert was Led Zeppelin at Atlanta Stadium, fourth concert was the Who Quadrafinia Tour at the Omni in Atlanta. Yeah, and uh Leonard Skinner, their record had just come out, and that was their first big op big tour opening. And I loved them, uh, they were great. I wasn't real crazy when the rebel flag came rolling down behind them. We were standing there going, right, dude. Yeah, but they kicked ass, they were great. Yeah, you know, the music was great. I didn't dig the rebel flag too much, but the music was incredible, and and again, that we we all sort of like felt like they were one of us, you know, because they were from the south and opening for the who and they they kicked ass. They like to delude themselves that they blew the who off the stage. No, it's kind of hard to do. Quadrafenia you're a who? Yeah. Probably if I had to pick one concert, the greatest concert I ever saw, it would have been that Quadrafinia Tour. It was Keith Moby.
SPEAKER_01I mean, what's a band you saw back in those days that you were excited to see that let you down?
SPEAKER_00Were you just like, man, you know, probably because it was out, it was a stadium gig, but I wasn't that impressed with Led Zeppelin. Huh? Uh they they was they were great, but Paige is a little sloppy, anyways, and it just seemed a little, and Robert Plant ducked, he may have been might have been not feeling well, but Robert Plant ducked a few notes that you're like, oh, here it comes. And then it's like, what? He went down an octave there, which of course he had to. I mean, yeah, as I as I became a singer myself, I understood why. Yep. But uh I I I totally got it. But um Led Zeppelin, I wasn't as blown away by. Um, I'm trying to think who else. I wasn't knocked out by Marshall Tucker. Uh, they opened for the Almond Brothers, and it's part of it too was like, I was really wanting to see the Almond Brothers. Come on, let's go. Yeah, take the highway this way, dude. You know, uh, but uh I I was really lucky. You know, the thing of it is is back in those days, back in those days, um, you had to be really good, man. Yeah. You had to the bands that played at our high school dances were badass. You just you couldn't phone it in. You had to be really good. You have to have your gear down, you had to know. I mean, these guys had to, if the ant blew, they had to fix it. You know, you had to know your gear, you had to know how to string your guitars, everything had to be professional. You know, there weren't there wasn't amateur, hey, let me just get in front of cameras and everyone will love me and I'll be instantly famous. It's like you had to work your ass off. That's what I came up in.
SPEAKER_01So when you were seeing bands, what singer set the bar higher at aside from uh Peter Wolf and Jay Giles, which is for people that don't know, definitely worth digging into. But what's another singer that for you who maybe hadn't become a professional singer yet, went like, okay, now now I gotta now I gotta lift my own bar.
SPEAKER_00Steve Marriott, Steve Marriott for sure, and saw saw um Humble Pie. Yep. Uh Steve Marriott for sure. He really informed my singing. So that Humble Pie live record really hit me at a time when I was developing. I wanted to sing like Robert Plant. I wanted to be Robert Plant. And I ended up with this voice, as you know, closer to Steve Marriott, Bon Scott, which is fine. I'm totally happy with that. But uh Steve Marriott was somebody that that really got me. Greg Allman blew me away, uh, a completely different vibe. But uh Greg blew me away. And oddly enough, I mean, even though I was a little disappointed initially with Led Zeppelin, Robert Plant, just his whole thing, yeah, his whole presence and everything. And he did some shrieks that were just blood curdling, and they hit the Echoplex like right at the right time and everything. And they'd ride him up, he'd do these, so nothing, you know. Again, I'm being very nitpicky about Led Zeppelin, but if you know, because really for the longest time, they could have sucked and I would have still been blown away because it's the whole experience. But yeah, uh Greg, Rod Stewart, uh Van Morrison, you know, those those a lot of a lot of cats, but Rod Stewart, Steve Marriott, Robert Plant, the the the Holy Trinity, you know.
SPEAKER_01So were you was your world all rock, or was there soul and funk and different like were were there some other singers that you might have seen that were non-rock that you know changed? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00I remember seeing I remember seeing Tower of Power with I forget the guy's name, the original lead singer, the guy that ended up going to jail for murdering somebody. Oh, um, yeah, I forgot. Not Lenny Pickett, but um I forget what his name was, but they blew me away. Uh I saw I saw uh Tower of Power in probably 74 something. Hearing my dog's going off out there.
SPEAKER_01It's part of the charm of doing a podcast.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, yeah, you got a little something out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're you know, they hear something outside. This this happens. Um so when you were um starting to become a singer and you're like, I'm gonna do this professionally, what was the gig that stepped you into the into that realm?
SPEAKER_00Um, a personal gig? I can't think of like one singular show, but it was that whole process of going into a bar and setting up and singing, and you know, you're like, Jesus, I hope they like me. And of course you can't project that because like the audiences are like animals, they sense fear. Yeah, you know, so you have to not project this. Please like me, please like me. And it taught me a lot to like, even if you're not sure, you damn sure better act like you're sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um that's great.
SPEAKER_01It's just when I started playing in bars in in Sarasota, you know, playing uh you saw bands, local bands and bars and stuff, but you must have seen some bands that later on got bigger that you saw at their club phase or whatnot. So you get to see a singer or guitar player with the band up close and and personal. What would be what would be a band that you saw in their club days that just had that magnetism where they just took that space or where whether you knew they were going to be huge or not, right?
SPEAKER_00Like that you know, I I can't think of anybody that I saw like that that ended up being Van Halen or something like that. I mean, there were local local dudes that you know, like guys that played in the Outlaws and guys that guys that ended up playing with the Allman Brothers or with Dickie Betts. Um Matt Apps, man. Matt Aps, he was playing in a local band in Sarasota uh with my friend John Prestia. And uh Matt came down from DC. Matt was just the coolest fucking person I'd ever seen in my life. He rolled his t-shirts up on the sleeves and he had the he had his hair. I mean, they were just like the coolest people, and Matt had some big city vibe to him. So, you know, Matt went on to do play with Dickie and with Government Mule. So I mean, and Matt was is one of my best friends, one of my closest friends. And so I got to watch him up close in personal. We we did a lot of music. He was the drummer with Montrose when I played with Ronnie. So very cool.
SPEAKER_01That was but um what kind of a guy was Ronnie Montrose as you know, to work with as a person?
SPEAKER_00Ronnie was fabulous, man. He was so funny. He was he was sick. He he was he was very he had a very, very dark sense of humor. And uh very funny, incredible guitarist, great producer. I met Ronnie. Uh someone brought him to see me, my guy that was our drum tech at the time. Uh, I had locked out the big room at SIR in San Francisco for like months. I had way more money than I should have had at the time, and I outbid Santana for the big room at SIR. Wow. And uh we just and we just rehearsed and I did showcases there and stuff like that. But um a guy that was working for me at one of my crew knew Ronnie and said, Ronnie's gonna love your singing. And I'm like, okay, cool, bring him down. Yeah. And um one day I'm up there, we're running through our set, and I looked and I see in the doorway, I just see these eyes. Man, Ronnie had these really intense eyes. And uh he just loved what he heard and introduced himself and we started hanging out. He produced uh a records, bad records worth of material for me and played on it. Um I just recently found some copies of it. Cool. Uh the masters are long gone. Excuse me, but um Ronnie was very intense, uh, very professional, very uh, very much a perfectionist when it came to his playing and his gear. Again, another thing is like people that had there was guys that could play guitar, but they didn't have their sound. Right. They didn't have their gear, and Ronnie had everything, you know. He had the gear, he this he's I remember he had this big black Gretsch, it was a solid body, but he might have been semi-hollow. But he just everything, his his amps, everything was just dialed in. Nice, yeah, yeah. Ronnie was Ronnie was incredible. I I I really cherish the the times I got to spend with him.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I bet.
SPEAKER_00So we stayed friends, you know, for for the whole time. Yeah, he would always call me and he'd go, Keith, it's wrong. How's your bum?
SPEAKER_01That was how our phone conversations always started. That's awesome. So I know when you get into conversations uh about your career in music, people focus on the Alman Brothers. And I don't want to be typical and focus on that period. Um, but I being a huge fan of the Alman Brothers would be remiss if I didn't talk a little bit about it. I know um your story about uh meeting Greg and writing songs with him at a house party in the kitchen and getting to know him as a person. He had a magnetism to him. He was not a guy that would run around the stage and jump around, but there was this like quiet power to his his whole voice. You know, how did he how did he uh carry that as a person?
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean? Like, yeah, man, I know what you mean. And you know, as you as you were saying that, I was realizing that like to be one of the most prominent lead vocalists in rock history and blues, he did 99% of it sitting down. Yeah. And sitting at the B3. And uh, that was that was an experience in and of itself, watching him up close, working the B3 and the flip, the volume pedal and everything. It would be like he was driving a Corvette, man. Oh, yeah. Volume pedal working. Um Gregory had this coolness and this elegance, which a lot of people don't really get because frankly, you know, he could be pretty sloppy at times. Uh not as much on stage as off. I mean, occasionally on stage. I saw him one time it was kind of embarrassing. Um not when I was with him, but early on. Um he did not show up on stage at his best, put it that way. Yeah. Gregory had this coolness. Gregory was probably the coolest dude I ever met, man. He was just he had this cool. And it it just it it was in his stage persona and it was just in his whole his whole vibe. Yeah, you know, he always spoke real quiet and kind of, you know, he he never raised his voice at people, and he could get kind of he'd get short, but he wouldn't raise his voice when he was pissed. And he did get pissed, but yeah, he had this quiet elegance to him that that I I noticed way before I met him. He had the velvet jackets and he had the coolest clothes, and and you know, his whole vibe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_00And then once I got to know him, it's like that's him, it's not an act. He's yeah, and he, you know, he carried that from the blues guys that he grew up around, and and you know, he learned how to act from B.B. King and and and Albert King and people like that.
SPEAKER_01So he was uh and you know, it's such a kind of a a bit of a checkered life. I know there was some stuff that went down in the 70s with you know the uh drug busts and stuff, but um and all of his different romances and whatnot. But the guy was a legend and his vocal tracks, you know, you could put on an Alman Brothers song, and it's just gonna always sound eternal and timeless to me. I mean, that voice is just of the ages, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was his voice, and his voice was his voice when he was 19 years old, you know. Which is crazy. That was the crazy thing. The first time I heard the Alman Brothers is before I actually saw an album. And I'm like, wait a minute, that blonde guy, that's that's Greg Allman. That's and I get that from myself too. But as I got old, as I started singing, it's like that voice is coming out of you.
SPEAKER_01It's like well, you ever see the early uh footage of of Steve Winwood and he sounds like Ray Charles? Yeah, it's like a teenager. You're like, what?
SPEAKER_00Same kind of thing, same kind of mindset. It's that voice coming out of that person, right? Steve Wenwin was would be another person I would count as uh, you know, uh influential singer, and his again, his not just the voice, but the the attack, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Who who would you say is a singer that was superb but never had the material to hit that next level? Like they never they just never had the right songs, you know?
SPEAKER_00Steve Marriott could have been, you know, you you could put him in that. I mean, had some some really cool songs. Yep. And the the again, the humble pie live record was badass, but there wasn't like a a single. I mean, Itch Koopark, you know, was was a single. And I mean, which isn't to say, you know, I mean, Steve Marriott was huge, but I I could see his voice going to a different level, yeah, if he'd had the right material and the right handling and all that kind of stuff, but it was a different time too, you know.
SPEAKER_01Um so much of that music, uh, it endures for us, but in the public consciousness tends to fade. And so bands that were ubiquitous and that everybody knew, it seems like if you walked up to, you know, a millennial or a Gen Z on the street, they might not know who any of these people are.
SPEAKER_00Uh one person I saw that blew me away was Henry Gross. Henry Gross. Henry Gross, guitar player, singer, songwriter. Um, he had a record uh called Plug Me Into Something. And uh I saw him at a uh a medium-sized club, like a house of blues size club in Atlanta, Alex Cooley's Electric Ballroom. And he blew me away. And he had a great, great voice, great guitar player, looked great, and he he should have been bigger than he was. Yeah. He had a song called Shannon, and uh, and it was a you always thought it was about a girl, and it was actually about a dog. Oh one of his one of his dogs died, and uh, and then you find that out you're like, oh, I love the song even more. Yeah, Shannon by by Henry Gross. It was a pretty big hit. I don't know if it was a regional hit or what, but Henry Gross was a badass. He's still out there playing, I think.
SPEAKER_01But uh I love you know, if you if it's in you, if you're a lifer, you know, there's some people that they they just stop making music because they can't make a business out of it and it's more of a product. And then there's people who are artists and they just can't, they have to make art, they just have to put music out and it's part of their soul, their catharsis, you know.
SPEAKER_00Um I mean yeah you do it because you have to. Yeah. I tell people like you know, young, um I'm aging myself again, but uh young people that I talk to that are what do you what's your advice and stuff? It's like if if you don't, if you don't absolutely have to do it, don't do it. Yeah. And if you're in it for any reason other than that, that you love it and you you have to do it, you're gonna be disappointed at some point. Right. I don't care how successful you get, the the girls are gonna stop coming, the the drugs are gonna stop flowing, the money's gonna stop pouring in if it ever starts pouring in. So you have to have that as your foundation. Yeah. And if you don't, man, it's gonna suck at some point. And I God knows I got discouraged a couple times, you know, and and wasn't happy with uh where my career had gone. And I was like, I know what, I'll show them, I'll quit.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And then it's like, okay, now I'm not doing what I love to do. Right. And I'm at a point now, man, I'd rather I'd rather sing and not get paid than not get paid and not sing. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Ideally, I'd like to get paid and sing and get paid well, but of course, I'm I'm at this point where it's like, I'll work with you. What what's your budget?
SPEAKER_01You know, but it's yeah, it's it's there's something about doing it on the same way. I mean, I I love to make music, I love to be involved in recordings, I love to create, you know. So there it goes back to me to curiosity. And curiosity to me is the number one driver of success. So the people who are lifers are curious, they push past boundaries, they push past frustration, they don't quit because they can't quit, you know? Yeah, yeah. So a lot of people know you as a singer. What do you wish more people knew uh about you or knew you for?
SPEAKER_00I'm actually pretty happy if they know me as a singer. That's kind of uh I in reflecting as I'm getting older, uh thinking back, like what did I really want? You know, would would we we all go through this when we reach a certain age? What would 18-year-old Keith think about pretty much year old Keith?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh and I, you know, I I honestly I'd be pretty proud of me. Um uh I was just telling a friend yesterday, you know, what I wanted more than anything was to be a great singer.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00And maybe I should have been a little more specific, but uh as it turns out, I mean I I I know what I'm capable of, and I know, you know, just based on the feedback that I get when I'm playing, when I'm singing live. Uh I don't know, man. Um I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm satisfied. I mean, I'm happy and I'm doing what I do and I'm real good at it. I I I'm not I don't have any you know self-doubt about that part. Probably the only thing I don't have self-doubt about is my singing. Oh that's you know, like I said, it's it's I I'm a lifer, but even if you're a lifer, you'll go through periods where out of necessity you have to do other stuff to bring in income or to just to survive. Sure. I did PA, I PA'd on music on movies, I was actually an accountant, which anyone who knows me was like, you're doing what? You and uh it's all computers. I was I was mainly doing data entry and data processing. I was not actually accounting because I I have numbers dyslexia, I think. But uh, um, you know, as a living for a while and and sort of filtered back into doing music.
SPEAKER_01Um what what do you think most people assume about you that isn't true? Oh god.
SPEAKER_00That I'm a Trump supporter? I don't know. Uh uh I I guess they I don't know, man. I'm a pretty much an open book. I think maybe they think I'm maybe a little more uh a little more wild than I am now. I used to be, you know. I used to be uh I was I was one of those guys, my my nickname was the Tasmanian devil. You know, I would come into a room like and uh I think maybe I'm probably a little less that than people probably presume.
SPEAKER_01So what would you say are your best and worst habits?
SPEAKER_00Best habit is um persevering, singing, remaining keep keeping my keeping my chops together, yeah, singing no matter what. Worst habit is is definitely procrastination. Um thinking, uh I got time, I can do this. And that's you know, that's the old thing. Your biggest mistake is you think you have time. So I've been guilty multiple times of procrastination and and and some of that is born from fear of failure. You know, well, if I don't do it, then I can't fail. Or if I never finish this, right, uh then it then it it can't be a failure.
SPEAKER_01So what's a failure that you've had that at the time you perceived as a failure, but actually turned into a great life lesson?
SPEAKER_00Oh god. Two marriages, uh they were failures, but they were also life life lessons. Yeah, yeah. Um which which contributes to my third one just celebrating our 25th anniversary. So finally thinking, yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_01So third times the charm.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, drugs uh definitely learned my lesson the hard way with drugs and um would have would have been much better off had I maybe tried cocaine like three times. Once once for the fun of it, second to make sure, and third to like kiss it goodbye. But uh uh that I definitely that's a regret that I that I that I wasted a lot of time.
SPEAKER_01You were in a sit a scene and a situation where there was a ubiquity to that where it didn't seem like something, you know, it was just that's like I say, yeah, I was the guy in the 80s doing all the blow, right?
SPEAKER_00It's like every it was everywhere, right? And and it was and it did have a certain glamour to it, and and uh and it was you know, they were talking about legalizing it back then in those days. They were saying it's a harmless recreational drug, and we were all like, I can quit whenever I want. We just never got around to wanting to quit. Right. So, you know, it's like uh I I only the all the jokes, I only did it when I was alone or with someone, you know, all of those things. So uh that was, you know, a big a big one for me was that I I wasted a lot of time and a lot of life doing that. I was either uh for a period of time, I only got a physical addiction, but I was just so wrapped up in it, I was either doing it or looking for it.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Doing it, getting it, or looking for it. And right it consumed way too much of my time. And not to mention it, you know, didn't help my health. And I used to think, well, I'll do a big line and I'll go sing my ass off. And it's like, no, you're gonna get out there and your throat's gonna be all numb and you're gonna be all amped up and you're gonna be singing sharp. Yeah, because anytime you're overamped, you you go sharp. Right. And uh I used to think I was killing it, and I had a very good friend when I started finally figuring it out. I I went out and I did this set, and I was higher than shit, and uh and I'm killing it, and um, you know, uh, and I came off stage and this girl, uh, one of my best friends, and I'm waiting for her to go, dude. And she just went like that. And I'm like, what? She's like, dude, we need to talk. And she said, You sound like shit, you look like shit. Your your jaw looks like a lantern on the back of a train. Right. And and she was uh usually right there with me with this, but she's like, I gotta, you need to know, you know, yeah, this is not good, and this is not helping you. And it was, you know, it was like I I always thought that I could perform, right? And I was deluding myself. I was not performing, I was thinking I was performing. So you know, looking back, there were probably showcases that I thought I was killing and I wasn't, and the AR guy's going, mm-hmm. Right. Yes.
SPEAKER_01So nowadays you you do more of warming up and getting yourself prepared. So when you're on stage, you're comfortable and none of those issues. Do you have a warm-up routine when you sing now?
SPEAKER_00I try to, but uh the realities of of playing, like particularly playing clubs and doing these kinds of dates, is like, I don't know what I'm gonna sing. I don't know what I'm going on. There's so much hurry up and wait. You do a sound check, and then there's a few hours. A lot of times I get out of the car and get up on the stage and start singing. And the first song is my warm-up. Yeah. You know, and I kind of tend to, particularly like the Almond Brothers shows, you know, I tend to like build in a couple of songs that are like mid-rangey, that that get me up easily to get up into the higher range. But I mean, I have routines that I, if I have time and if I know, okay, I'm definitely going on at eight, yeah, and it's 20 till.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it's it's sort of like uh uh the analogy would be like in baseball when a relief pitcher warms up, yeah, and then doesn't go in the game. Yeah, you can only do that a couple times before it's like he can't go in now because he's warmed up a couple times. So when you get warmed up and then it's another half an hour, 45 minutes before you sing, you're sort of back to square one. So interesting. In a perfect world, you've got a nice room, a nice green room where there's nobody else. Yep. Hate being around other people when I'm about to perform. And the reality is you just can't, very rarely do I have a room to myself. Right. But ideal situation about 45 minutes before I've got 20 minutes to warm up, sing scales, sing parts of songs that I know are like in the range that I need to get to.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_00But it's it's a it's a very inexact science. I mean, some people, like I said, if you have the luxury and the the the infrastructure where you you know what time you're going on. Right. Maybe so. But it's it's it's it doesn't work that way, kids. I can't tell you right now.
SPEAKER_01So um I'm gonna ask you a couple of random questions. Um, thinking back, what would you say is one of the saddest songs ever written and recorded?
SPEAKER_00Uh Story Story Night Vincent. Oh uh Dominican Clean. I saw him when I was about 16 in a club. And uh when he played that song, I just wept like a baby. Yeah. Uh, because it's just it's in the everything about it, the lyrics, the the melody, it's so poignant, and and knowing the story, you know, oh yeah, and you know, and and all of that. It it it that one for sure. Um Thorn Tree in a Garden. Oh yeah, Derek and Domino's Bayla Bobby Whitlocks, and again, uh every th everyone thought it was about a woman, it was about a dog, about a little dog that he had that uh he uh it was a horrible story. He left he went on tour, he left this dog with his neighbor, and the neighbor had it put to sleep while he was gone. Oh man, yeah, yeah, and really just because it was a hassle, it wasn't sick, it he just had the dog put down, and he probably gets off tour and like you what? And uh so that's what that song's about. The thorn tree in a garden is um beautiful, very poignant, too. I'll tell you, one of the all-time songs that that always makes me cry is somewhere over the rainbow. Just which is not a rock song, obviously, but uh touches you somehow. The um my wife and I went to uh a screening at the Chinese theater back, uh it was whatever the uh the Munchkins finally got their star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. There were like two or three of them left, and they they screened a new print in the in the Chinese theater, and uh I'm sitting there and she starts singing somewhere over the rainbow, and I'm kind of starting to go, and and and my and then my eyes start watering, and I'm like, Oh shit. And by the time she gets to the you know, the chorus, I'm bawling, I mean, crying, full on ugly crying. And uh Martha, my wife, like nudges me and she goes, honey, listen, someone's crying. And she turned and she saw me, someone's crying, and I'm like, just hits you, yeah, yeah. So, and I'm not really sure. I think that was a lot of memories of people that I, you know, my dad and grandmothers that I used to watch it with and stuff, but that song hit me like a ton of bricks, and now whenever I hear it, it's like uh-oh, here you go.
SPEAKER_01But so I to tell you a quick story, a couple years back, I used to play at a piano club here in LA, and a lot of the guys that play in it, some are gone, but some are in their early 90s, right? And so this guy I played, I played over the rainbow and I got off. He goes, I saw that movie in the theater. Wow, when it came out. When it came out, his grandmother took him. I was like, wow, you know, it seems like such an old thing. And here's a guy that actually went and saw the theater. He's 90s something, but um what so I feel like back in the 1970s, 60s into the 70s, there were a lot of story songs that had a story to it. And I don't know how to describe it other than that. And there were some that were really spooky. One for me was Angie Baby by Helen Reddy. Yeah, just it seemed so spooky. Um, where was would there be any songs that you would put in that category?
SPEAKER_00Sometimes from the story, uh well, the one that freaked us all out in that in that era was the um Blood Rock DOA by Blood Rock. And uh it was it was about a plane crash or something like that, and it was it was told in the first person of someone dying in a plane crash and kind of describing what was happening as it was happening, and it that one we'd listen it'd scare the shit out of us, you know. So, well, let's listen to it again. It's like uh DOA by Blood Rock was was pretty scary, and I they had an album. I honestly I don't know that I listened to any other song on the record, but uh that one was scary. Um, certain songs scared me. Um a couple of Hendrick songs scared me because he had died. Oh, right. And there were things that were very haunting, you know, and sounds and uh what was another song that scared me? Um the middle parts of Dazed and Confused used to scare the shit out of me because I was still I think I was nine, something like that, when that song when that record came out. But it certain certain songs used to it was wasn't so much the story, but just the sounds. They were so dark and eerie and shit like that.
SPEAKER_01This has an effect on you. What when you were a teenager, what songs represented uh being in love or having a crush and heartbreak? What would be songs that you would have put on to the right?
SPEAKER_00Love Rain or Me. Love Rain or Me was like the the the song that would be ringing in my head my first real serious romance, so to speak. And to this day, I'm that song gets me in uh I've gotten to perform it and it's it's that's my lowering me into the ground or spreading my ashes song for sure.
SPEAKER_01When you when you perform that song, how did that feel how's that feel to sing that?
SPEAKER_00Amazing, amazing. And I'm thinking about all the different kinds of things. I think of her, I think of you know how I felt, you know, and it's like as you become older I you may tell you when you're a kid you don't know what love is. It's like, yeah, I did. I knew exactly what love was.
SPEAKER_01I mean I didn't quite know what to do with it at the time. Right. But you you hear a certain song like you know if I heard an air supply song I'm like that guy knows what being in love with a woman is about exactly you know there's there's something that I don't know yet but he knows. Yeah. Yeah exactly. What um obviously music is built not just on sounds but lyrics. What would you say are some of the great lyricists in your opinion? And they're a line from somebody that really stood out to you at a point really like connected with your life well you know um obviously Dylan.
SPEAKER_00Yep and I I star I studied him as a songwriter and just just you know so I mean anything you could take the the first word on Blood on the tracks to the very last period on Blood on the tracks and literally every word uh written like it was you know Spill and Ike from those 18 like it was written like it was written in my soul from me to you you know the the lyrics from that a lot of Gregory's lyrics were were were very you know very meaningful to me and and I when I got to know him it was like oh okay I see where these these words came from. Yeah um my favorite line of all time is I was born in a crossfire hurricane I think that's just the coolest most descriptive you know line I mean uh to me it's just like if you had to pick one line nice uh I would go with that uh a lot of a lot of Pete Townsend's lyrics the who the the that the two albums the the Who's Next and Quadrifinia were for me the and I live at Leeds I'd say but but as far as lyrically and the song structures and things it live at I mean uh who's next and quadrufinia to me were like that to me is like the who the quintessential who so you're right around that that year like 1971 is often listed as one of the greatest years for music right all the albums that came out in that year were just still it's almost untouchable what would be another year that you would say was an amazing year for rock and roll and why 72 yeah I mean that era uh uh 67 69 you know um I'm I'm a 60s 70s kind of guy you know um I I've had cover bands where like the newest song we played was something off damn the torpedoes which was still 79 so yeah I don't know um I was I wasn't a huge fan of a lot of the music in the 80s or 90s or really subsequent you know to that I I would I would not think necessarily you were a fan of the hair metal stuff but certainly like some of the bigger bands the U2 or Michael Jackson or Madonna or whatnot were there were there any prints were were there any of those yeah definitely definitely I was gonna say like any of those that actually broke through and you were like all right this is yeah Prince Prince for sure Prince definitely um uh you know and and I I I neglect uh the you know the female artists and stuff like that but Stevie Nicks and and Janice Joplin was kind of I hate to say it was a little before my time yeah he had passed away right around the time I was coming of age but Hart you know Ann Wilson what a great singer oh yeah uh so but you know the 80s 90s stuff Prince I liked you too and Bono was kind of in my range I mean Journey you know yeah I unfortunately that was the era I was trying to get signed to a record deal so I was doing a lot more that kind of stuff doing a lot more recording and writing trying to get a record deal than recording and writing and being an artist you know and it was part of the component of the times you kind of needed a record deal to put a record out right back then you didn't have home studio if you had home studio it sounded like shit right it was like rig together and hey listen to this I had guys that you know and oh I did this on my four track and I bounced everything down. I was like no interest in that and they're underneath soldering stuff and I was like no no no no so you had to get into a real studio and you had to have a budget to do that. So I mean it was understandable but I chased you know you were speaking earlier about things that I may regret I chased trying to get signed when I probably would have had a better chance getting signed doing what I did. Right.
SPEAKER_01So you know interesting in hindsight it's 2020 right oh yeah perfect um and all of those you know the things that went right in your life and led you places um when you're looking back what would you say would be a mistake what you saw at the time as a mistake and maybe looking back even still see as a mistake that you made that really taught you something yeah we we covered the drugs um I didn't you know be because things the cool things that happened for me was never were were never things that I auditioned for or that I went out and solicited they were always things that just happen.
SPEAKER_00The Almond Brothers had I tried to get in the Almond brothers band they would have been get the fuck out of here. Right you know but by shutting up and fit and and doing being Keith basically I've had more success being Keith than anything and being and I would say that's probably true across the board if you're yourself and you're genuinely someone that people want to have around then you'll be cool. But um I love that I don't know I I can't think of mistakes that I made as a career I had a producer at the time that that the Almond Brothers brought me on board and I was real close to signing a deal then and I had a I had a song that was you know going to be my single and uh when I told him I was doing the Almond Brothers tour he was like this is a big mistake man you need to stay doing what you're doing and I'm like no man I this there's no way I'm not doing this. Right. And I learned a lot and I had the experience of being in front of 100,000 people 10,000 people be playing real stages in front of real crowds. Right. So uh I didn't think he thought it was a mistake but I I didn't think so. Did he did he did you get back to him afterwards and did he uh reneg on it you know we'd all kind of moved on and I I moved out here uh this this was in Florida and uh we stayed in touch but we didn't uh and I was sort of you know sort of moved on to bigger and better things yeah so um well I'm I'm hope I'm hoping maybe a mistake was when I came out here I moved I moved to Marin County I probably should have come here to LA but at the time there was still a lot of music business up there it was waning but uh I had the doobie brothers management was was was managing me for a minute mismanaging me more like it but uh you know that that might have been a mistake I mean I was I was I'm thinking hey these guys know what they're doing right unfortunately they were already doing it and they had other stuff and they had night ranger was like their big act okay so I kind of got sh you know shuffled aside for Night Ranger and then by that point you know I'd wasted a couple of years and but I I can't think of anything like oh man I wish I hadn't done other than lifestyle shit. Yeah and two marriages.
SPEAKER_01Those I wish I hadn't done but I mean I think at some point you get to a point in your life where you have to look back and just be happy with all of it because you got to this point. You like who you are and exactly I like me.
SPEAKER_00I like me and I'm glad I'm all these things went into where I'm at right now which is cool.
SPEAKER_01So yeah and you know next to Keith Partridge you're definitely my favorite Keith.
SPEAKER_00Well I'm I I'll take that as a huge compliment and I'll I'll say that that Keith Richards is my second favorite Keith other than me. So and Robbie Krieger Robbie Krieger's my next favorite Robbie exactly yeah you're my favorite Robbie as well or Robbie with an IE anyways but you're sweet well look I hope we can make some music in the new year.
SPEAKER_01I hope everybody hears a song we got together and and we're gonna finish it off this year.
SPEAKER_00I've spoken to JJ and we're we've got a plan. Awesome. And um yeah we absolutely need to do some more stuff.
SPEAKER_01I hope people get to see you perform and uh radiate in the joy and rock and roll that you bring and I'm I'm so happy that you came and chatted with me today. Keith England I appreciate you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Bobby Jeanette it was a pleasure man thanks for having me. Right on
