The Curious Musician Interview: Fernando Perdomo

Greetings and welcome to The Curious Musician! This is a space where we will explore creativity and curiosity by interviewing a host of interesting and notable people for chewy conversations and some great concert stories too. 

In today's episode I am joined by the multi-hyphenated musician/songwriter/producer Fernando Perdomo, who has become a sensation on the progressive rock scene. Fernando's journey started in South Florida, which is where we met. He might be the busiest, most ambitious guy I know. Inspiring! Enjoy the episode and stay tuned for more!

Link up at www.instagram.com/the.curiousmusician and YouTube!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Bam. That's right. I gotta I gotta authorize this. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

All right. I am here with Fernando Perdomo. If you don't know who Fernando Perdomo is, you're gonna find out. Uh I've known Fernando since our early days in Florida, and both of us have relocated out to Los Angeles. Um, Fernando, thank you for coming and spending some time with me.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Thanks so much, Robbie. I always love hanging with you, and this is uh a really fun thing because we're always a good hang, and this is pretty much what it's gonna be. It's gonna be a hang, and you guys are gonna get to watch.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

So I want to dive into a little bit about what makes you creative. Um, were you, when you were a kid, drawn more to making music or understanding it?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Well, before I could actually play, I was always obsessed with the process of making music. I'll never forget when I first saw a band play at a place in Miami called Bayside. Um uh there was a band called the Rockefellers, and I was just completely enthralled. And then I started going to see shows when I was uh in middle school, and I was just in. Um and then I started getting good at music, and obviously when you get good at something, um the uh the obsession begins.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

And um, you know, uh without being too TMI, uh my girlfriend in high school was my guitar.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

And I didn't really uh didn't really start chasing girls until after high school. And um I I was obsessed. I was uh playing every day, learning as many songs as I could. Um my high school had a rock ensemble program, so we were doing stuff like Sgt. Pepper as a show and and uh basically being a full-on cover band, um, playing you know, all over town and all over parts of the country. And so I got some stage experience, which was pretty valuable. And then right out of high school, I uh I joined pretty much every band in Miami except for yours. So what the hell?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Well, uh, do you remember the first time music felt like a language you could speak, not just something you could hear?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Oh, yeah. Um, it was uh when I did my first talent show. Uh when I was in seventh grade, uh I performed uh Sugar Mountain by Neil Young at a talent show with just an acoustic guitar and a harmonica, and I won. It was uh it was absolutely incredible, and uh, you know, that was one of those moments that uh pre-cell phone, I hate that I don't have um to relish and remember my high pre-puescent voice, but uh it was a great moment because I I realized that you know uh I being a complete nerd could be cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Well, what what what what kind of a child were you like outside of making music?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

What was your oh well I was always uh I was I I I was raised by the boob tube. Uh my family had cable. Uh I I can't remember our first cable box where we had the actual wired uh um rectangular cable with the push buttons that made a sound. Yeah, and uh, you know, there's a video of me on YouTube uh um dancing in diapers to MTV playing heat of the moment, and I was already obsessed. I mean, I was already emoting.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

I was already I could barely talk, yeah, but I was already noticing moments where you know I put my arms up and went, you know, and my mom was like, Wow, you know, um as you got as as you got into playing, what part of your personality did music give you permission to express that wasn't easy for you otherwise?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Well, I can't dance at all. So, you know, the the fact that I could uh play guitar, move around on stage, play drums, be an octopus, be a rectopus, uh, it's pretty cool because you know I'm pretty awkward on the dance floor. And another thing that's really interesting is uh, you know, I don't I have I was um unfortunately given a baritone voice, so I can't really wail as a singer, but I can wail on the guitar, you know. It's uh it's an incredible thing to be able to have this piece of equipment that can uh make me a superhero, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Um there's not a lot of ways to have superpowers, and it's way easier than becoming an athlete or becoming a bodybuilder or becoming a sprinter or a dancer or a gymnast, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Sitting around comfortable with a guitar, that's my sweet spot, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Well, if there's a guitar at a guitar at a party most uh comfortable, like most creative in, like what state of being well, you know, I talk about this all the time.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Um le living in Southern California, it doesn't rain. And I miss um I miss those gloomy days where I call them six eight days where you just kind of sit around and become Nick Drake, you know. Nick Drake wouldn't have been Nick Drake if he lived in California, right? You know, there's a there's a certain uh element of uh English weather that that uh makes Nick Drake possible. But uh to me, you know, I I really enjoy um expressing myself and if the thing that I love the most about music is beauty, so that's why I never really got into what I call cock rock, you know, that whole kiss thing where it's like riffs, you know, riffs and boogie and and you know uh um masculine sounding stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Um, you know, I I I actually prefer major sevenths and beautiful harmonies and but could could you begrudgingly throw a compliment to a riff where you're like, all right, I might not like that kind of music, but that's a great riff.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Hocus pocus by focus. One of the greatest riffs of all time. Um I don't think that's in your realm though. Carry on Wayward Sun. You know, absolutely. Um uh Ooh Yu by by Paul McCartney. Um my favorite riff of all time, Go Down Gambling by Blood Sweat and Tears.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Wow, great.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

The opening of No Matter What by Badfinger.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Um, absolutely, you know, that stuff is uh is really important. Um, you know, uh uh freaking uh um uh there's so many. I mean, you know, there's so many great riffs, but to me, what I prefer is writing a beautiful chord progression and figuring out a melody that'll work within those chords, and also like um my current situation playing with Marshall Crenshaw, uh there's the old saying, three chords and the truth. I prefer 30 chords and a bunch of lies. I love you know, yeah, yeah, that's really me because honestly, um there's people that we both love, like Jason Faulkner and Roger Manning and Jellyfish in that whole world, where they never really stayed to three-chord rock, you know. Todd Rungren, uh these are people that that uh, you know, all the all the soft rock people that we love, you know, Rupert Holmes and and uh and and uh uh Gilbert O'Sullivan, these are people that explored the chord progression and explored what makes the chord progression an art form.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Do you do you think we've lost in some ways, like if you go back to standards in the early 20th century, people use what I would say is the full set of chords, and then popular music got dumbed down, and then we hear bands like the Lemon Twigs, who we both love, oh yeah, who who seem to have rediscovered all the chords.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Well, yeah, that whole lemon twigs uh uh uh family. Um, you know, uh the the latest thing they released is uh their dad, uh Ronnie DiDario, just put out an album uh called I Could Write, and it's basically a bunch of his songs done by people like Todd Rungren and uh uh it's really really cool record. And uh yeah, I mean they were raised around Beach Boys, Beatles, who all the good stuff, and um also their father's music, and their father was totally uh like an Emmett Rhodes type guy. Yeah, and uh, you know, to be raised in that environment, it's great that they didn't become DJs out of spite, you know. They actually picked up the guitar and the drums and keyboards and whatever they play, and they learned all those amazing chords and they continued the tradition that their father did. And you know, their father's fantastic. Uh um, you know, really, really, really good stuff. But same thing goes with me. My mother, driving around when I was a kid, loved this French composer named Michel Legrand. Yeah, always had um the uh umbrellas, uh um the uh the classic album. Uh there was this um the Umbrellas of Sherberg, which is an incredible record. Um there's another one called Legrand Sings, which is a rare record where he he's the vocalist, and he was a great scatter and a great like jazz scat guy. And then also uh Charles Obnivore, she loved French music, and she also loved Pavarotti, and she loved Latin music. And I grew up around a lot of uh world music, but she also liked the Beatles, and that was like my big um, you know, I tell this to everybody. Um, if you only listen to the Beatles, that's uh a perfect um introduction to everything that's great about music because they included so much of everything from early rock and roll to skiffle, country, show tunes, classical, reggae, um, experimental, acid rock, um, Baroque music.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Um, and you know that that that's a perfect example of a band that, you know, I I have okay, so I'm a record producer by trade.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

And I have a client who's uh going through a little bit of a crisis, and she was like, Well, I don't know what genre I am. Uh that song doesn't fit this album. That song can't be on this album. And I said, What if the Beatles said, Yeah, uh Eleanor Rigby can't be on Revolver because it's a rock record.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Or, you know, we can't have Helter Skelter and Julia.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Or what if Van Halen said we can't do big bad bill is sweet William now?

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Exactly. Well, you know, look at Sgt. Pepper. You know, it's got a full-on Indian tune, right? It's got a vaudeville sounding when I'm 64, you know, it's got a song that doesn't even have them on it. Freaking uh uh, you know, uh She's Leaving Home, which is just harp strings, you know, and and just sort of their vocals. But same thing goes with Eleanor Rigby, same thing goes with Revolution number nine, which is music concrete, same thing goes with uh Don't Pass Me By, which is country, same thing goes with uh there's a lot of times where they they cosplay, musically cosplayed.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Let me ask you a question because that's a great segue. Why do artists feel not so free to widen the scope of what they do? Why are so many people uh so intent? Is it uh just a business model that you have to be one thing? Why are people so afraid to do what Bowie did? Or anybody that just kept branching outside of what was their style? This is what happened.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Labels uh wanted our bands to stay safe and recreate the magic that made their hit. See, the worst thing that can happen to a band is if they have a hit. Because next thing you know, every song they'll turn in and be like, okay, you know, for example, pilot, you know, magic, January, pretty much the same song, but they're both great. Yeah, but still they kind of kept on trying to create the capture the magic. And the same thing goes with a lot of bands, you know. It's like, you know, you listen to all of Taylor Swift's music, and there's not a lot of depth stylistically, nothing against Taylor.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

But she did she did get out of country into a more of a pop realm.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

I know, but she's but songwriting wise, yeah, but songwriting-wise, stylistically, lyrically, there's not a lot of bread like depth there. Yeah, um, you know, uh, it's that's why it's like people freak out when like Andre 3000 put out that new age flute record. Right. Because but you know what though? That's that's just as crazy as George Harrison putting out electric electronic sound, sure, and Wonderwall. Wonderwall, you know, like it's that's just as crazy as when John Lennon started putting out albums of Yoko of just screaming, you know. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like it's a it's uh it's considered a power move to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

So how what what piece of advice would you give to an up-and-coming artist as far as finding quote unquote their sound and yet keeping themselves open enough to expand?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Here's what I tell every single person I work with make a record you like. Yeah, if anybody else likes it, it's a side effect. You know?

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Seriously. I mean, I uh because there's no worse thing that could happen to an artist than if they like sell out and make it. For example, there's the famous story of how do you do it? So the Beatles, uh George Martin was not sure about their songwriting, so he found a hit for them. How do you do it? And uh Brian Epstein said, The boys write their own music, absolutely not. And guess what? It became a number one hit for Jerry and the pacemakers. But imagine if the Beatles had had Love Me Do not be their first hit. Imagine if their first hit was written by someone else, and next thing you know, oh boys, you know, we'll just put uh She Loves You and uh I Wanna Hold Your Hand on the B side. Um, now you need to record more songs by you know other songwriters. And next thing you know, Beatles, best known for twist and shout. You know, Beatles, best known for you know, I mean they were they were a cover band in Hamburg.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

I mean in Hamburg, Germany, they were playing all these, you know, imagine if the Beatles' biggest hits were Twist and Shout, Please, Mr.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Postman, Money, Mr. Moonlight, you know, right, freaking all the cover songs. You know, nothing against Till There was my favorite of all of them is Till There Was You from the Music Man. But I I actually was surprised when I found out that Paul didn't write that because it totally sounds like the same person that wrote And I Love Her.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yes. Well, he was definitely informed by that kind of music. Um, so let me turn for a minute to being creative. Um there's a point where when you're a kid, music is compulsive, right? You're you're just doing it because you can't stop. And at some point it becomes intentional. You want to start working on things, learning about more things. How would you describe that transition for yourself of music going from compulsion, which it probably still is to an extent, to an intentional pursuit?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Compulsion to an intentional pursuit. Well, the minute I found out that I could make a living with it and not having to work at the paper, um, you know, we both come from a journalistic background and we both used to work at magazine together.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Um, I have a degree in journalism, and my mom was one of the founders of the Miami Herald. And I knew that I was always gonna have a backup there. But when I got that first paycheck from the Unity Church in Miami, Florida, it's like 30 bucks or something, I was like, wait a minute, I can make music, I can make money with this. And next thing you know, I was playing on big records, you know. I mean, we've both have played with big records and play big artists and stuff, and it's like, man, if you get a good touring gig, you know, um the uh I think I heard that uh each member of Paul McCartney's band makes 10,000, 15,000 a show.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

You know, it was a flat million a year, just as like a blanket, like a flat million. Flat million.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Flat million. You know, I always joke every you know, I always joke, I've got a couple of lottery tickets in my pocket. I always joke, I'm like, I just want a million post-taxes. What would you do?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Right now, a million dollars in your bank account to fund your dreams. What's the first thing that you put budget towards that you don't want to do?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Well, first first of all, I would um I would focus, I would be more focused, I think. You know, I I work as a record producer and uh I love working as a record producer, but I think I would put more focus on on my own endeavors, uh, just because I really feel like um most of the people that I see that are actually having some major kickback are investing 50,000, 60,000, 10,000, 20, 100,000 into just one album. And that gets something because you know, really, it's it's uh it's still it's still a pay-to-play on a lot of time on a lot of in a lot of ways. Yeah, but um, you know, it's uh I would I would definitely invest it in um in certain artists that I really care about, certain projects that I really care about. And I would also donate a lot of it, honestly, because really, um, for example, uh when the fires happened, I I um raised 5,000 with one of my songs that went to uh rebuilding a lot of my friends' lives. Man, you know, there's a lot of it's a really tough time for a lot of people, uh especially with the political movements and also with a lot of uh unrest in the world. And I feel like uh if it's put to music, I think music is more important than ever, especially in the uh music um uh music in the schools. Uh I mean I'm a product of public school music, and I know you're a product of public school music.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

No, I'm not. I'm not I was never in I was never in band in school. I never took any courses in music.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Well, you did teach an MI though.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I did. Um, I was brought in to write curriculum, but I didn't have a music degree or a teaching degree. So once I was in there, I could stay on even after they asked me, so where's your transcripts? I was like, well, a little funny story with that. So you're not a person that went to music school, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I I tried. I actually, when I went to Miami Dade Community College, right, which is the only school that gave me a uh a little bit of a uh a little a little bit of a of money, um, I uh did a dual major in journalism and jazz, and uh I learned the hard way that uh jazz school is way different than rock school. Um and uh I had a little bit of an issue with the guitar guy at Miami Dade, uh, and uh it just didn't work. So I I uh decided to go full on with the journalism, got an AA degree from them, and then uh that's it. Um I I did learn a little bit of vocabulary from the jazz class, but yeah, you know, it's really not it. It I I ended up, you know, when my dad passed away, I I ended up kind of focusing on the school of hard knocks and playing in five bands and playing at the back of the road every week, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

So you obviously came to understand a lot of things about music. I think where there's a certain breed of musician that doesn't want to learn too much because they don't want to quote unquote ruin the magic. How do you keep wonder alive once you understand how things work?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Oh, it's very simple. Um, I avoid I avoid avoid written music as much as possible and use my ears 100%. Yeah, uh nothing will make me play worse than having a chart in front of me. So like I I'm actually uh doing a rehearsal tomorrow with an album for an artist that I'm recording an album with in uh in in January, and he's got all these chord charts, and it's like, you know, I I find myself trying, uh, you know, I get I'll get lost because I'll be like, okay, this is repeating, this is repeating, but uh, you gotta be looking because he's got a lot of changes. He's kind of like uh Jim Steinman and F and Sput's inspired artist. So, you know, it's like uh it's great, it's really fantastic that he's going there. Um, I just uh I prefer to learn stuff by ear. Yeah because it makes my it makes me really feel the music as opposed to being.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

So you don't have your own charting or your own notes that you make for yourself, little short hands.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

You know, what's uh uh I'm working on a on a on a rock opera album and I'm doing a lot of uh string and uh horn arranging, and uh I'm finding myself completely uh at a disadvantage because you know I'll forget to like denote the key C and it's like oh okay, and oh this is supposed to be in in uh in bass clef, or this is supposed to be an alto clef. And I'm like, so you know, I mean that's the stuff that I I get I wish I would have uh gone to school for.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

But um, as you know, I I've been writing string and horn charts for the stuff that I've done, and the challenge with that was I never with my songs did it measure by measure where I was like, oh, there's two two uh measures of five there. And I didn't realize that's what how it was looping at the end of the chorus or whatever. So having to take songs that I just knew by heart and I could just look at chords and words and play and go, oh, wait, it's it's an extra bar there, an extra two bars, or it went for seven, and I have to figure out is that, you know, how does that work out? Um, and working with other players obviously helps that process. But if you're gonna write charts for other people and you want them to be legible, it is definitely uh a pursuit of its own. Um, you are great with you utilizing a lot of different sounds in and different guitars and instruments. Do you do you chase sounds or do you do sounds chase you?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Well, that's a great that's a great question because um, you know, uh I know we're we're not supposed to talk about anything that's uh that's current because I don't know when this is gonna play. But in 2025, I did uh 12 albums under the waves title.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

It's 120 original songs, and it's easy to repeat yourself musically and repeat yourself sound-wise. So I found myself buying a lot of cool gear that would inspire different things, and actually uh right now, not only has uh a couple pieces of gear inspired certain sounds, it's inspired next year's 12 albums, which is clouds. Yeah, because I've gotten into granular reverb and I've gotten into um uh vibrato and um ambient sounds, yeah, and uh truly it's an incredible world. Um yoga music, uh, you know, new age. Yeah, and I love it. And it's also something that I could also perform live, which I'm gonna be doing um uh in New Zealand uh soon. But the thing about it is um I love it. Well, I people you know, I have a lot of guitars. Yes, and they're not a lot of changes. Cheap guitars. So, you know, uh, no guy, I know people that have the same amount of guitars I have, but they're all like ten thousand dollar guitars. I'm the guy that loves the two hundred dollar hundred and fifty dollar special. Yeah, but every time I get a new instrument, you know, it it'll inspire a part of me because it's a new world.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

And um, you know, I love that. Also keyboards and and synth sounds and pedals and so it's a kind of discovery. Yeah, plugins, even. You know, every time I get a new plugin, it's like, ooh, this is a uh a new hat, a new suit, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

So let me let me flip the script. What's a non-musical influence that has most influenced your music?

SPEAKER_00 22:42

You know, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Um I guess besides cafe con leche.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Well, aside from food, women, um uh comfort, um nostalgia, um history. Yeah. Um I've even been inspired by certain um obsessions I have. Like I I have a little bit of a of a interest in uh in tragedies and and and uh and plane crashes and stuff like that. I don't know, it's something weird. It's not I I I feel like I could fly better if I know that uh what it takes for a plane to go down. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

That's a great question. I'm gonna keep peppering you with a couple of questions.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

No, no, no, but there's more, there's more. No no, please, please. Uh there's a great word called fission or something, which is the uh the uh actual uh name, the actual technical name for for for goosebumps.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

I love that feeling.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Um I love travel. I love driving. I feel like I listen my my favorite moments of listening to music are always either driving or on a plane.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

I love so off the top of your head, what's a great driving record, not just for you, but that you'd recommend to anybody on a long drive.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Taven Paula and her speaker.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Really?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Automatic Man, first album. Um that's a great one. That's a really, really great one.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

So if somebody didn't know anything about Progressive Rock or anything like that, they just needed something great to drive to. Those would be two of your go-tos.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Those are two of my go-tos. Um, another album that's great is Todd Runman's Utopia, the first album. Love driving to that record. Um Gino Vanelli's Night Walker.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Oh. That's an expected choice, knowing how big of a Gino fan you are.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I know, but Gino, Gino is uh is truly my my uh, you know, if somebody says, Oh, what's your guilty pleasure? Because you know, they when well, you know, there's a lot of interesting guys like Gino Vanelli and Rupert Holmes that their hits don't represent the breadth of their work. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

And the absolute genius of so it's only guilty if you think that it's some cheesy guy and you don't understand the depth of talent. Once you do, that's not guilty at all. I mean, I have no guilty pleasures. There's none, nothing I feel guilty for if it's a pleasure for me, it's a pleasure, you know. But I understand other people it might say they might say, Oh, you really like the spice girls? Like, yeah, I love the spice girls. Are you kidding? So for me, who's your favorite spice girl?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Uh well, you know, I I um uh as a as a uh woman, as a I I was always I always loved ginger spice, but uh talented wise, sporty spice has got the best voice.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

She's got the voice.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Now uh funny enough is that uh ginger stole the best album title I could ever have.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Really?

SPEAKER_00 25:39

She had an album called Schizophonic.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

I know, but the album isn't schizophrenic.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Sadly.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Sadly. So that would have been the greatest album title for anybody, like any for you or me.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Jerry Hallowell, if you're out there, you need to do an album with Fernando called Schizophonic 2 and really go. So here's here's another question for I wonder how she's doing. I haven't checked up on her in the last 20 years. I think she does a lot of charity stuff and whatnot, but um that's cool. I I'm still hoping for a reunion. Hey, a man can be.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

They had some really, really good songs. Yeah, and funny enough, I've got a double connection with them. Dave Way, who did the Echo in the Canyon soundtrack, which I played on, he mixed wannabe. And my friend Sean Lee played guitar on their album. Cool. Sean Lee from from from uh from Young Gun Silver Fox.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Back when he was a young up-and-comer American guitar player in the 90s in England. And he's like, Oh yeah, man, I played Wawa on on uh on on uh on uh uh um uh um what's that song? Uh say you'll be there? No, no, on on the uh uh spice up your life.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. A great song. Um so what uh mistake taught you more than any success?

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Well, um that's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I'm trying to I'm trying to line them up for you.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

That's a great, great question. I I um I like to say that my disappointment to inspiration converter is the best in the business.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Because um I personally have been so close to the top of Everest, like four times. And like full on, like this is gonna be the rest of my life. Yeah, you know, uh almost signed twice to Atlantic, actually signed to Geffen with another band that I decided not to be part of, and then I watched them, you know, get get dropped and uh and and uh and and shelved. Another artist that I was with that was signed to the Starbucks label that ended up going nowhere. Um many times where it's like, oh yeah, the Echo in the Canyon thing where it it really was amazing, but it it's not what we expected. I mean, I really was expecting more from that.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Um and every single time that some of that stuff happens, I bounce back. Like I've got a band right now called Broken Sound that came from the ashes of a band called Open Sound. And I thought I had met a singer-songwriter that was absolutely perfect because he was the singer I could never be, the lyricist I could never be, and all around a cool guy. We made an album, and by the time the album came out, he was um off uh in another direction and left. And I um I was shattered for a second, but then I said, you know what? I like the drummer, let's start a band, you know, and uh I always do that, so it's like um I guess it's the musical uh equivalent of uh uh you know uh um mopping stuff underneath the the couch instead of you know dealing with it. I um I just move on and I make I make uh you know the old lemons and the lemonade because uh especially at my age, 45, you know, I I uh I can't just spend a year, take a year off to to grieve something.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

So I I just move on and and and um I also have a very low expectation of my sales and and and my own per personal career arc. You know, I I I'm one of those people that doesn't mind having, you know, 6,000 fans or whatever, technically. You know, I'd rather have uh I'd rather have a hundred real fans than have a million fake fans. Yeah I don't care about views, I don't care about uh listener counts, I don't care about followers. Really, every sale is a small victory, and the real success is when I get emails from people saying my music helped them, or if I get emails from people that I look up to praising me.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah. It sounds like your definition of success has evolved since you started, which I think it does for all of us, because we think all these things are gonna happen, or if I just do that, or whatever, and we look back on the path. And so when you look back on your path, how do you view your success so far in a rear-view mirror kind of way? Well, my okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I'm gonna backtrack for one second. Please. As a uh not typically attractive, overweight, hairy, you know, not necessarily model-looking guy, I never expected to be on a poster. I never expected to be on the cover of Teen Beat. I didn't set out, I didn't, I didn't move to LA expecting to become Guns N' Roses or Motley Crue, or you know, or Justin Bieber. I came out to LA with my goal of being somebody like John Bryan or Jason Faulkner or Roger Manning, where you know, you'll you listen to a record and you're like that guitar player is great. Who's that? Oh, it's Fernando. Oh, who's that bass player? Oh, uh who produced this? Oh, it's that Fernando guy.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Same same way that when I hear something that's produced by John Bryan or Jason Faulkner and it catches my ear, and I'm like, oh, yeah, of course. You know, yeah, because I I um I am a liner notes freak. Um, and since I was a kid, uh I knew I knew who Bob Ludwig was before I knew what mastering was.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

So um the thing about it is I I do respect the uh people behind the window, behind the glass. I do have um uh a high regard for people that are surprised every time I contact them. You're like, oh wow, I can't believe you know who I am. It happens all the time. Yeah, and that's that to some that might be considered dorkiness, but to me it's just part of my inspiration. Yeah, because really when it comes down to it, I love everything about records, I love everything about music. I love when I listen to music, I'm not just listening to the lyrics or the beat. Like, you know, I'm I'm um I'm listening to every aspect of the production, which could be a little painful, especially when it comes to the music that's successful that I feel isn't right up to sp up to snuff.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Um, and I hear it all the time where people are just being lazy.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

And uh mechanized production is is uh drives me crazy. Drum machines are my thing. I'm not into uh repetitive dance music and stuff like that. I respect the art, I just don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

You're not you don't want to be at a four-on-the-floor EDM dance party. That's for about 30 seconds and then you're done.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah, that's that's that's hell. I I I I mean, there's sort of there's a reason why. I mean, I love Miami every time I go there, but it's like unfortunately, the music that thrives there is the music that sells booze.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And my music was not selling booze.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Well, let me turn to how you became the artist that you are. I think there's certain people, and I always go to David Bowie with this, that their sense of self-permission was so free that it gave other people this kind of I used self-permission. So, what artist helped give you the self-permission to become the musician you are?

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Todd Rungren.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Todd Rundgren.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

My uh not just my favorite artist of all time, my my career template, because Todd Rungren, you know, even during his most successful period as Todd Rungren, was producing records. Yeah, you know, the same the same year that he had a number one hit with Hello It's Me, he's producing the New York Dolls. You know, he's working with the band, he's working with uh Cheap Trick, Holland Oats, XTC, Meatloaf, made millions producing Meatloaf. Yeah, and also playing on records, you know, and uh also developing music equipment, um being uh a creative force, um, and also finding time to uh indulge in the rock and roll lifestyle, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

He sounds like he looks like and sounds like a guy that continuously follows his passion wherever it leads him, even if the audience isn't totally on board. So is passion something you feel or something you practice?

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Passion is something I practice and feel. Uh, but back to Todd, you know, he made a lot of fans with Hello It's Me, yeah, and then immediately dropped them with the Utopia Project and with Wizard of True Star.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, he made a lot of fans with Bang on the Drum All Day, and then he immediately dropped them with a cappella and uh and and uh and uh um Nearly Human, you know, Todd not not on the surface a great business decision, but as an artist, exactly what he wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

No, but you know what? The fact that Todd has stuck to his guns is why Todd is still playing theaters instead of the local chili cook-off. Yeah, you know, he's not a play your hits and you know, he's not he's not the put on the leather pants, turn on the smoke machine and play the hits type of guy. You know, when he could when you go see Todd Rungren, you see whatever the fuck he wants, sorry, whatever the hell he wants to play. Yeah, and he'll throw in a little medley of his hits. Right. And uh I I remember that when I opened up for Todd, he would he wasn't even doing Hello It's Me. And he would do I Saw the Light, and he says, You guys want a little candy? You know, again, um Todd is a uh Todd is um Todd. Yeah, I am Fernando. You know, I um I had a lot of people tell me I was an idiot for putting out 12 albums, and I'm like, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

No way.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

No, I've become a better musician playing on 120 songs this year.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

I've become a better writer, I've become a more interesting musician in general. So it's like I'm excited to see where clouds is gonna take me. Yeah, I'm excited to see where the rock opera is gonna take me. I'm excited to see where I end up writing. You know, I might I could totally see myself make a prog record because one of the things about clouds is that it's more, it's not really involving drums as of now. But I love drumming, so I could see myself just you know do a prog album in a few months and say, okay, this is my prog album for the year.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Get it out of you.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Oh, well, get it out of my system and also rock out a little bit. Another thing is um about passion.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Um, it's the whole Neil Young versus um Ingve Malmstein thing. Uh well, maybe maybe Ingve's really good. Both have passion in what they have passion. Like, you know, okay, maybe like Neil Young versus some of the Instagram guitar players that you'll see that can play a million notes and are tapping up a storm and shredding. You know, I'll take Neil Young playing one note with passion over any of those guitar players playing 64th notes, you know, at 221 BPM just for speed. Um, same thing goes with Carlos Santana.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

I would put Neil in a category like Todd, where he took left turns and just said, follow me or don't follow me. I don't care. I'm doing the shocking pinks, I'm doing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Yeah, well, well, he got sued by his own label for not sounding like Neil Young.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

That's amazing. How often does that happen, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yeah, I know. And I was just watching a uh video about America and how America, like people were really fooled. They really thought Horse of No Name was Neil Young song, and then it took over the number one spot from Heart of Gold. Interesting, which is really funny. Uh, because uh there's um there's a few cases where some bands are uh are noting that AI clones of them have taken them over on Spotify, like uh King Lizard, King Gizzard. Right, but um check this out. Um there's a few artists that I've found that are not technically proficient at all, but there's passion in everything they do. Yeah, you know, no one could say that uh Nick Cave is an incredible technician, right? But um an ex-girlfriend of mine took me to a Nick Cave show, and oh my god, everything that came out of that guy's mouth hit me in the heart and destroyed me. I was just I felt the pain, I felt the suffering, you know. Yeah, uh even more. Check this out. Like, you know, Tom Waits, yeah, uh, you know, uh Leonard Cohen. Yeah, no, these are not you know, I I Bob Dylan. Yeah, Bob Dylan. Well, here's the thing growing up being obsessed with Paul McCartney, I can never sing along with him, so I thought my voice was broken. So I was like, okay, maybe I'm not a singer. But you know what? Um discovering people with great baritones and and going, wow, you know, there's a there's something to the warmth of these singers, you know, that I really, really love. You know, uh Nick Drake, uh Gordon Haskell, um uh there's so many, there's so many incredible like low singers that it's like you know, it's a character. It's a character voice.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

And a character voice sometimes could be a really effective thing, especially if it if it's a molasses voice, you know?

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Because um there's a lot of great great power pop singers that don't have any balls, you know. They're just they're just very uh uh uh articulate and in tune and high. But you know, there's uh I bet I bet there that's somewhere there's a great singer that I wish I could be that wishes they could be like me.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Yeah, you know, that's one of those things where it's like, you know, uh I've got a tune falsetto that I could do, but I can't hit anything chess voice. Like, for example, like this rock opera, you know, it's like I've got a lot of tenor parts that I'm I that I just can't do, so I can't even do the demos. I have to speed my voice up. But it's just like, you know, man, I I always loved like Dennis D. Young. Yeah, but there's no warmth there, you know. He can be like, you know, babe and stuff like that, but it's not traditional warmth.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

But does it have to be? Would a grittier singer have worked in that stuff? You know, it's kind of that those songs have more of kind of almost a photo-tune feeling. Yeah, but you know, it's it's it's almost more theatrical with.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

When I make a million dollars, when I make a million dollars, I'm gonna pay Tom Waits to cover babe.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

That's that I'd like to hear. Um, let me ask you a question. What do people assume about you that isn't true?

SPEAKER_00 41:03

They assume I can't I don't sleep. But every night I get six to seven hours of good sleep.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Six, seven, six, seven. Hey, target. Now stop that. Stop being so damn hip. So um, what do you hope never changes about you as an artist?

SPEAKER_00 41:22

I hope I never slow down. Good. I hope I never have a physical defect that keeps me from being able to make as much music as I do.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

I would hate that. Um I hope that I never find one thing and stick to it. Because honestly, I would drive me crazy. You know, the whole concept of playing the same ten songs for a whole year. Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Even if the crowd's going crazy and singing every word, and you know, you're so you're saying that you had you if you had an album and you had a hit and it hit radio, and you had to go and tour for a year playing that song and the songs in the record that people knew, and you were selling records and selling merch, and it was building excitement for your next one.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Well, I see it with Marshall. I see it with Marshall, you know. He he has to play someday, somehow. Yeah, but it's not even in his top 20 best songs.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

You know, it's a good song.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

And he loves it, and he loves what happened with it. But man, you know, I I see the I there's a there's a little bit of boredom there, you know. It's just there.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

He loves it, but it's like at least he has all these other great songs. If you're a one-hit wonder that really has the one song, and you're going out and playing something where you're just getting up for a couple and doing your song, at least you have the song.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Hey, look, if there's one song that could pay for the rest of my life so I can make the music I want to make, right? Hell yeah. My god, man. I mean, you know, I have to work my ass off to make rent.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

If I wasn't in that position, ooh man, I can make an album a day.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

But you know, uh, really when it comes down to it, I'm never happier than I am with a guitar in my hand. Never happier I am than than than when an album comes in from the manufacturer and I'm holding it and I'm going, I made this. I love that. I made this, you know. Um, that's what really inspires me. That's what inspires my creativity is knowing that I could make something out of, I could pull something out of thin air and just say, Here is here's my new music. Do you like it? Oh well, I love it. That's all that matters.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

And anybody in the world can listen, is still amazing to us that come from CDs and cassettes, and you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Hey, you know, I've got friends that were in bands that were signed that when they got dropped, they broke up because they're like, What are we gonna do? Sell our crap out of a car now, right? You know, we were on freaking Warner Brothers. What are we doing now? It's like when you pull um when you pull that out of the equation and you're in control of every aspect of your career, yeah. That's that's magic, man.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

It's freedom. And I remember uh a guy you and I both know, Arlen Files from uh Natural Causes. He did a great record with um Tom Dowd. And you know, in uh the studio I went and visited, actually, it was like really cool. And then the uh Island shelved the record, Troubled Monkey. And it was a really good record, but they shelved it, and for whatever reason, he couldn't even access it for his own uh use. And that was, you know, this whole life at that point. And then you have all this music that you just made, Tom Dad produced all this, and you can't do anything with it. I think those kind of things really hurt artists. Whereas being a position that you and I are in, you know, I released 10 albums of my own this past year and have more music coming. We don't stop or have any reason to narrow our our broadband, you know, or narrow our width if we want to do this or that, you know. If I wanted to do an instrumental piano record and then turn into a power pop thing, then turn into an orch. I could do it all because there's no limit, or no one's saying no, or that's not gonna sell, or you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Um I have a I have a I have a friend who was in the uh um on a major label and he made an incredible record that almost came out. And I was like, you know, hey, what what's keeping you from putting out that album? He said $100,000 or something that he owes the label.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

And I'm like, that's horrible. Yeah, that's horrible. That's why people record those albums, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

But it's like oh Taylor Swift to John Fogarty or Death Leopard, you know, record your album note for note, and you put it out as your own version, you know?

SPEAKER_04 45:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

So let me turn to concerts for a moment because one of the things that I love is talking about live shows that we've seen and experienced. What was the first concert that changed your understanding of what music could be?

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Wicking Crimson 1995, 14 years old, double trio thrac tour. Wow. Um that rearranged my guts.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

What how did you understand that at the time, or were you just absorbing it going on?

SPEAKER_00 46:14

I was obsessed. Wicking Crimson. And um it's funny, I I didn't get like the elephant talk era, the the discipline era, but I really got that thrack album, the vroom album.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

What was it about those that you were able to get that those other albums now that you've looked back and you've well the guitar tones were muscular again.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Um there was something chincy about the whole rolling JC120 sound that was going on, you know, which I've I've funny enough, now with with uh with clouds, yeah, I'm exploring that. But um but you know, uh freaking uh and I love Monte Kudisai and stuff like that, but man, that frack album was so cool, and then seeing it a band with two guitars, two bass players, and two drummers.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

And you and you knew the music before you went to the show, so you knew what you were going to hear.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

And I was uh blown apart, and that show was absolutely life-changing to me. And uh, you know, having Adrian as a friend and naming my son after him, yeah. You know, it's uh a big time um uh lifelong, you know, talk about uh that type of impact, and that all goes back to that night in 2005, 1995, yeah, at the Sunrise Musical Theater. Yeah, it was just absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Um what's another another show from back then that you still talk about to this day?

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Uh Tori Amos 1997 um at the um Fillmore in uh Miami Beach, and uh Josh Clayton felt a school of fish opened and he was amazing. Wow, and then Tori made me cry.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah. Was it a particular song or just the whole show welled up in you? Winter. Uh Winter. Um you cried from a live show? Yes. Was that the last or was there other times where you were?

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah, look like that. The visceral reaction to music is so interesting. Chills, anxiety, yeah, tears.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

You know, some music makes you feel sexy, some music makes you feel uh vulnerable, some music really scares the crap out of you.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Was there music as a when you were young that seemed kind of forbidden or private to you where it was just like a oh well growing up in a Catholic real um Catholic up or Cuban Catholic upbringing, yeah, anything sex related or drug related, I would have to talk over those lyrics when I listen to them with my mom in the room, you know, because oh god forbid that she ever hears that.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Right. And that's the thing, it's like there's a little bit of that, but really uh the most forbidden thing about music was uh at the time was profanity, yeah, you know, and I remember um being in high school and getting into like, for example, Jagged Little Pill, yeah, you know, and not being able to, you know, crank up uh you oughta know because of a certain part of the song. Yeah, and you know, there's a there's a lot of that, you know. I mean, I I um there's no forbidden music to me, you know. Um just being careful around your mom, right? Yeah, and and you know what's funny is my mom's been gone now for uh oh my god, she's been gone now for 14 years, and I still feel weird every time that um, you know, like I I would hate for her to ever find out that I ever smoked pot, you know. I would hate for her to um feel uh I I would the my biggest fear was for her to be embarrassed by me.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Interesting. So yeah, for what it's worth, I think she'd be so proud of you and your work ethic, your output, the connections you've made. Um, just for what it's worth, I think she would have tremendous pride in you. You knew her, so I'll tell her that the pot smoking was me. I just I I made him do it. Yeah, exactly. I never inhaled. So let me so we talk about live concerts. How did MTV or late night shows or concert broadcasts on TV shape your sense of what music was supposed to look like?

SPEAKER_00 50:39

That's a good one. Um, okay, so I grew up um again MTV, but I was in high school and I really got into alternative music, but unfortunately, all the shows were beyond my bedtime. And I uh luckily was a tech savvy kid who had a VCR. And um this is actually one of the best stories I'll tell.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Um, also I was poor, um, didn't really have uh a lot of money growing up for brand new CDs. So that's how I got into record collecting because I realized I could go to the flea market and pick up you know 10 records a week for 10 bucks, or you know, sometimes five. Yeah, and uh that's how I found my music. But then I discovered video the the rentable VHS cassettes at the Blockbuster with concerts, uh you know, delicate sound of thunder, live at Pompeii, Pink Floyd, uh Help, uh Hard Day's Night, um Utopia, Evening with Utopia. Um, there was a really cool uh Fleetwood Mac one from 1983, there was a cool Fleetwood Mac one from 1988. There was uh Ario Speedwagon High Infidelity concert, you know, and I would just tape them off from one VHS to another.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

And then uh here was a pivotal day in my life, and I for I think I I forgot exactly what day it was, but it was uh 1989, I think it was March 1989. VH1 had an all-day Paul McCartney day, and I popped in an eight-hour video cassette, and uh that was what got me in the wings.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

I was eight years old, and that's when I first saw clips from Wings Over America, and I wanted to be Jimmy McCulloch, and that's why my first electric was an SG. That's why I wanted to that that was my template, you know. And I've gone on to work with Denny Sywell, which is really amazing, you know, because he's uh, you know, even though he wasn't on Wings Over America, that there was also the video for My Love and Mary Lynn Had a Little Lamb and Live and That Die. And you know, I really got into the Red Rose Speedway album and wildlife albums.

SPEAKER_02 52:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

In fact, um, one of my first bands, we used to do wildlife live in Miami, and uh, you know, freaking uh Denny's one of my best friends now. So there you go.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

There you go. So um, if you could go back to a concert that you experienced, not to relive it, but to understand it. Now that you have all of the knowledge that you do, to go back and kind of see it with a more modern eye, what concert would you go back and see?

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Oh my god, all of them.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

All of them, yeah. Just uh kind of seeing be like, oh, that's what he was doing on the guitar or whatever, rather than just one of the first concerts I went to was actually two of them.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

I went to go see Right of Strings, which was Al Damiola, John Luponty, and Stanley Clark. Wow. And at the 75% empty night center. Wow, and it was amazing. They said, Come on up, come up, everybody, because there's only 100 people there. Wow, and it was absolutely mind-blowing. Another one was at the Gussman, it was um Guitar Summit 95, and it was Leo Kotke, Joe Pass, Paco Delusia, and Paco Pena.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

And that was mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

I bet. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

But I didn't understand what the hell was going on, especially Leo Kotke, and I was just like mesmerized.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

That's awesome. And now when you listen to those artists, you have a you know a little better of an understanding of what's going on without actually necessarily clinically knowing, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:21

I have to thank so many people for opening my mind because one of the biggest issues I'm having with like my own son and with other people that are really young is that they're not doing as much exploratory listening as they should. Why is that you think? Why do you think a lot of it is because they're only listening to whatever TikTok throws them, and it's whoever has the money to buy the ads.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

But there's a curiosity that kept you going to record stores or going and searching or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

What still I'm discovering stuff daily. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Is that is that just innate in you curiosity, or is that something that can be built in somebody that doesn't seem to have it?

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Well, there's a lot, there's a few of my clients that complain that they're working with a producer who's not in it. What do you mean you don't know who Jay Dilla is? What do you mean you don't you don't you don't listen to uh what do you mean you don't listen to hip hop? What do you mean you don't listen to to uh you don't know who geese is? And I'm like, okay, I'll find out who geese is, I'll listen to Jay Dilla. I'll listen to some, I will find out, and I will give it a damn shot and I will give it my attention. Yeah, and I will go for it. And you know what? I will find, even if it's the most minuscule thing that that will inspire me. You know, I'm always listening to stuff that people like, you know. I check out like guys like Anthony Fantano and say, okay, well, well, what's hip right now?

SPEAKER_03 55:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

And what's what's in? And you know what's funny? I'll find out that they're stealing from the stuff I love. Charlie XIX. I had no idea. Charlie XYX or whatever. Her big song samples Todd Rungren. Amazing. Um, I checked out Jay Dilla's album called uh uh what was it called? Donuts.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

The first thing you hear is Worst Band in the World by 10cc. A song that's completely based on that, literally to the point where they sued him. Wow. And I was just like, okay, all right. You know what? Behind every creative person is a nerd like me.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

And it's it's kind of a double-edged sword, because on one hand, write something original, won't you? And on the other hand, how would anybody in that realm ever hear 10cc if it wasn't?

SPEAKER_00 56:22

I don't believe in collage art. I believe in making your own music, but you know what? If it's if that's what it takes, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

But really, when it comes down to it, I like people that come up with their own thing. Like I just discovered this artist named Laura Snowden, not related to the other Snowden. Okay, and she is a classically trained guitar player who who trained with Julian Bream. And um she has um she has a thick British accent and a little wispy voice, and she realized that her voice, her voice best works when she's speaking.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

So she'll be playing the most complex classical guitar, and she's just talking. And it's kind of like this Lori Anderson type thing with a heavy British accent.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Could it work?

SPEAKER_00 57:13

And it's check out this song called The Dragon's Lair.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

We'll do.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

It is the heaviest thing I've heard this year, and it's classical guitar, upright bass, and talking.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

I'm getting chills just thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

There's the goosebumps coming now.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Literally, the first thing she does is she goes, and she goes, hello. And that literally, I'm not kidding. I could play the whole song right now. It's just like it's so intense, and I've never heard anything like it.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

So happy.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

The fact that there can be new things, and you can stumble across and be like, I've never heard anything like this. So let me ask you're a guy that to me has such an encyclopedic knowledge of music. Like, if I was on, I'm a guy that a lot of people would call as their lifeline on a music trivia show, you'd be right. You'd be the guy I'd call.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

So um I wouldn't have to be a good one.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

Don't know crap about history, but I know I could tell you who the who the third guitar player in James Gang was, you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

I I know you can. Uh so here's an interesting question. What are some albums that you've loved for a long time that the production is terrible, but the music just it just has something for you. But yeah, you you acknowledge that it's just not great production.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Oh man, bad production could ruin a record for me.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

It can, but what's a record that you love, production aside? And I'm gonna give you one for me. I love the third zebra record, 3.5. Oh, nice. A lot of people, maybe it was two, whatever it was, but I met Randy Jackson once and I told him that. He's like, that's my favorite too. I'm like, at least the guy in the band feels the same way that I do. But you know, production-wise, a lot of things, especially in the 80s.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

Martin New Martin Newell, the greatest living Englishman.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

The greatest living Englishman.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

It's an album produced by Andy Partridge, and it's uh sadly a drum machine record, but I love the drum machine on it. For some reason, I hate drum machines. I I think it might even be a drum pad, but it's really well done. But man, that record, I would love to have him in the studio and just redo it. Um there's an album called Plastic Earth by uh what was his name? Oh god, oh no, oh no, oh no, plastic earth. It was a record I discovered on mp3.com. Remember mp3.com?

SPEAKER_01 59:44

I do. Yes. So how about here's a f uh a similar question. What's a band, or better yet, an album that you dismissed when you were younger that now you love? When you were younger for whatever reason, you were just nah nah nah blah, whatever. And now it's one of those that you love.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

Edit, edit, snip. Another album with with weird production that I absolutely love. Dave Dill, Plastic Earth. It's a four-track album.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

And it's obvious four-track album, but it's amazing, absolutely mind-blowing. The you know, it's one of those things where it's like you listen to Todd Runner and Something Anything, and you're like, Why didn't he get a drummer? You know, that there's some drumming on there that I remember playing the record for my favorite, you know, my best friend in Miami is drummer. He's like, That's the worst drumming I've ever heard on a major label album. I'm like, I never even noticed, you know. Uh, but the Dave Dill record is such a four-track record, and it's like, man, if that album was the demos to an album that was done right by like John Bryan producing, that would be the album that we all talk about. But it's you put it on, and it's like it's like, okay, the fidelity is it's a lo-fi, it's a no-fi recording, right? But it's kind of like a no-fi prague. Um, it's an album that shaped me because it's a prog pop power pop record, yeah. By this guy in Rhode Island, and it's freaking incredible, but it's recorded on a four-track.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

There's a guy that I love, David Garza, who's a very prolific songwriter out of Austin, and I believe he spent some time out here, but uh he he put out all these albums and tapes on homemade CDs called Summer Songs One, Two, Three. And there were songs off of those that I loved that were obviously four-track recordings or really not well recorded, but the vibe there's a song called There Go the Weirdos that would be like one of my favorite songs of his, and it was very obviously recorded as lo-fi as possible. But when you capture a vibe, um, it kind of transcends.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

You know what's funny? Bad production to me is overproduction. Okay, I could there's records that I can't listen to because they're too pristine. Uh, there's a joke somebody made when they looked at my record collection. They're like, Were you in a coma from 87 to 92? And I'm like, Yeah, those are the drum machine years, those are the years where everybody had that gated snare. Yeah, and everybody had you belt built their songs on sequencers, yeah, and everything's just repetitive garbage. And honestly, I'd rather hear bedroom recordings by Nick Drake or Judy Sill, you know, literally voicemails from people. I'd rather hear that than something that was obviously pasteurized to death.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

Like, man, there's nothing more excruciating than hearing great albums by by people during the DX7 years, you know. That's what see that's one of the things that like as a keyboard player.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

I'm I'm with you because I and I have the opposite. Like, I love soul, funk, jazz, all these artists. And as soon as you hit 80, 81, and everybody started getting the DX7s and stuff, you know, Bob James, all these records, and they'd have some great players on it, but the sounds were you know well, GRP records or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

But check this out, check this out. You know, John Lennon dies 1980.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

And you know, he became the legendary Beatle because he never got to make that shitty 1986 album with the rapping and the and the yeah, I could totally see him devolving into a cheese ball guy by 87.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:26

But he and he never hit disco because a lot of bands, you know, like Rolling Stones. He was on he was on break, he was raising Sean.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

Yeah, you know, he would have made a disco record in 80 in 77 if he wasn't raising Sean. But you know, he was he was on it was he was he was doing a full-on comeback, and I think his 1987 record would have been 10,000 times worse than press to play, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

He would have he would have devolved and he'd become this like kind of you know cheesy I uh nothing against John, he was brilliant, but I could totally see him making like a uh Sun City type record, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

I I wonder what guys like Hendrix would have done through the 80s, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

Well, Hendrix Hendrix would have sounded like an automatic man. That's the joke about automatic man to me, is that this is the record Hendrix would have made if he would have made it to 76.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

So and about to work with Miles Davis when he died.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

I know that's it's tragic. I think Miles was at his funeral and had they had a much deeper friendship than people assume. Quickly talking about the 80s, there's certain bands that changed their style or sound going into the 80s and had a period in the 80s that was unique. I'll talk about Yes, 90125 versus the Yes album or anything earlier. That was a huge leap. The police, Ghost in the Machine, yeah, huge leap from Outlandos Damore, Rush with um Signals, Grace Under Pressure, Power Windows to me, three of their greats. Um what are other bands that you felt hit the 80s and did a a good transition, or conversely, hit the 80s and suck the chuck?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

Oh man, well, there's a lot of bands that that you know broke up at the right time, like Gentle Giant, you know, and uh and and didn't make that crappy 80s record, you know. Um uh there's some good moments, but Renaissance camera camera and uh timeline, those were those were that was that was a rough transition trying to you know perm the hair, put the good, you know, shave the shave the beardy guys and like you know make uh make new wave music.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Um guy like McCartney made great hits in the 80s that weren't so far from his.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

Oh man, I was recently listening to Pipes of Peace. That record's brilliant. Yeah, you know, and there's actually great moments on on press to play. And I love, love, love, love, love, love, love Flowers in the dirt. Yes, and yeah, and and uh and uh um off the ground is great too.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

So he was able to kind of hit the 80s and not pick up different elements of

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

What was going on that was, you know, what would the George Harrison George Harrison uh Cloud Nine's great too. You know, uh, actually, I was checking out uh uh there's this great guy uh on online who did a five-hour deep dive into Ringo Star. Wow, and uh he made a lot of really strange albums in the 80s. Um you know, but uh uh uh I mean man, there's some really weak sauce stuff that you'll hear from Lou Reed, you know. There's some really weak stuff, weak, weak, weak ass stuff that you'll hear from Bob Dylan, yeah, you know, and it's like okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

When was the album with the Daniel Lanois with most of the time and Man in the Long?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

Oh, that's that's 94.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

No, that's 94, 95, 96. That was cool. You want to hear something rough. Joni Mitchell Doggy Dog with Thomas Dolby.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Aye.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:52

You know, that's Joni, Joni, the Earth Queen, you know, with her little dulcimer trying to make a Lori Anderson record.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

Tricky.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

It's tough.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

So that would be hitting the 80s the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

Oh, yeah. Well, a lot of people hit the 80s the wrong way. You know, there's a lot of really rough cases where especially prog people were trying to. I mean, Big Generator is unlistenable to me. Really? Sorry, yeah. There's a little there's some good moments, but generally it's so, so shiny.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

It is. I mean, it it it was definitely trying to be 90125 part two. I I always loved 9012 Live. That version of Hold On is good, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

But uh, but for example, Bill Bruford's uh Simmons kit uh with uh when he did when he did Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe. Yeah, you know, and it's like uh that shotgun snare, you know, and it's not my thing. No, you know, um I can uh there's electronics rarely inspire me when it comes to drums.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

I I like the sound of real drums, I like the sound of real guitars, basses, you know, keyboards, uh vocals, you know, synthesis, even though the AI thing is surprising, sometimes it's surprising.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

And I haven't asked you about AI at all. How about that for an interview?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

That's fine. Uh, you know what, man? Um, it's the inevitable. It's the inevitable. And and uh if it's put uh into use by the right people and for creative purposes, great. But the whole thing about having somebody's tone-deaf that has no musical knowledge to be able to create a song that unfortunately makes people like us that spent four decades, you know, learning becoming who we are, learning your craft. It uh for some people it's gonna be uh deaf blow. For me, it's just inspires me to up my game.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Yeah. And it's you know, there's a difference, I would say, between making product and making art. And art can only come from the artists. What's your mind creates, what you have to say. If you want to make product, that's another thing. I've seen people do uh versions of their songs with AI making it a female singer, or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

Oh no, no, no, no, no. I've I've I've uh AI actually has inspired a whole album I'm putting out this year. Uh I was on tour of Marshall Crenshaw and I started putting in my songs and typing in soul.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

And I found out that a lot of my songs work really well with RB. So I've hired a singer named Broadway B, who's an incredible singer, and we're making a soul record.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

All my songs.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:22

But you're hiring him to sing it, not having AI sing it. But AI gives you the idea, then you're like, all right, now let's make it better.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

I am I am uh enjoying some of like horn charts and stuff that they're creating. Yeah, it's pretty cool stuff because it's stuff that I can't really do.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

All the funk covers and metal songs. I I would go see a live review of that stuff. Yeah, just the one place that AI is gonna fall short is bringing it to the stage, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

Well, that's the thing, yeah. You know, uh AI girlfriends are not not my thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

Not the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

Um, I got five minutes, man. I have a two p.m. I have a 2 p.m. session. I have to go take a guitar over to UPS.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

So let me wrap up with a couple of quick questions. What did you have to unlearn to grow?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

I had to uh I had to I had to disconnect part of my brain. Um uh to be able to grow, I had to come to grips with the fact that I wasn't gonna be um I wasn't gonna be a typical rock star. Yeah um, you know, I chased it, I did soft by softwest, CMJ, um, you know, when I had dreaming in stereo, but I realized that that just wasn't for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

And I I uh it can happen. But honestly, if I die and people say he was a really, really good musician who did a lot of really great things, I'd rather them say that than say he was uh the guy who wrote I'm too sexy, or he was uh oh Fernando Penoboe, best known for I'm not gonna move to LA or Smile. Right. Uh I I would like my story to be more broad than just the guy that did that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

Well, you're certainly continuing your legacy. I mean, you've expanded with all of the the waves records and then the clouds records. Maybe rain, we were talking about Nick Drake earlier, too. Yeah, it'll be the next year will be the rain records, you know? Yeah. Um there's a I would have to move for that. There's a certain part of you though that is a fan forever of music. And I think that people, when they get in the business of music, sometimes they lose that. How have you managed to protect that part of yourself that first fell in love with music and still had that alive and well?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

The feelings that music gives me. It's always gonna be the smiles, the million smiles. Uh the joy when I discover someone new. The goosebumps. The goosebumps. That feeling of saying, hey, you should check out Laura Snowden, you know, or hey, you should check out improvement movement, or you know, my latest discovery, uh, I just discovered a band called Pearl and the Oysters.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

Yeah, really cool stuff. Improvement Movement, I learned through you posting. Check this out.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:14

Check this out. Amazing. Yeah. I discovered Pearl and the Oysters. I went to go see their big show, and I wrote them and they said, Wow, what an honor to have a musician like you in the audience. Wow. They knew me because they they were a little bit uh jealous that I produced that one free design track, and they loved what I did, and I immediately put them in touch and I said, Sandy, Sandy, Ellen Dedrick, just as Pearl on the Oysters, meet these two people, and now they're talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

I love that. And you have that that connection thing is not like what can I get out of this, it's like that person needs to meet that person.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:51

Absolutely. You know what? Um altruism to it. Uh, life is too short to keep everything to yourself. I love that. And and I uh if I could make a connection that leads to somebody's eternal happiness, that makes me just as happy as if somebody did that for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:09

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

And you know what? I believe in karma. I believe in uh I believe that uh doing good things will lead to good things, and also I believe that making music is never a bad thing, as long as the music doesn't have any hatred in it or it doesn't have any evil um connotations, as long as the music comes from the heart. And uh the last thing I'm gonna say is there's two bank accounts. There's the one in your pocket and the one in your heart. And the one in your pocket could go away and you're gonna have to sell some crap. But as long as the one in your heart is full, you'll be happy.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

I love that. Well, Fernando, thank you for making you not just yourself happy, but so many people happy. And I want to at least mention your shirt, the Sergeant Pepper's soundtrack. Ho ho ho! Come on, man. I got the post. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Do that again. Do that again. I got the post.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:02

I gotta screenshot this. This is great.

unknown 1:14:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:06

That's it. When uh that's that's when when two weirdos, that's when you gotta match your crazies, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:12

I love it. Well, thank you so much and stay curious, my friend. I will see you very soon, all right? Absolutely. Have a great day, man. You too. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

Uh man, again, happy holidays and happy Hanukkah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

Hey, to everybody, to you and yours. Take care, man.