The Curious Musician Interview: Brian Haas

Greetings and welcome to The Curious Musician! This is a space where we will explore creativity and curiosity by interviewing a host of interesting and notable people for chewy conversations and some great concert stories too. 

In today's episode I am joined by Brian Haas, epic piano master and a genuine, passionate human being in full exploration of the universe within. From his best-known project The Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey to his current band Nolatet, Haas is a musical supernova of gorgeous ideas, powerful rhythms and fearless flow. I highly encourage you to dig into his music and see him live whenever you can!

Enjoy the episode, subscribe to the channel and stay tuned for more.Greetings and welcome to The Curious Musician! This is a space where we will explore creativity and curiosity by interviewing a host of interesting and notable people for chewy conversations and some great concert stories too. 

In today's episode I am joined by Brian Haas, epic piano master and a genuine, passionate human being in full exploration of the universe within. From his best-known project The Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey to his current band Nolatet, Haas is a musical supernova of gorgeous ideas, powerful rhythms and fearless flow. I highly encourage you to dig into his music and see him live whenever you can!

Enjoy the episode, subscribe to the channel and stay tuned for more.

Link up at www.instagram.com/the.curiousmusician and YouTube!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi there, I'm Robbie Jeanette. I'm The Curious Musician with Brian Haas. Brian is a piano player I have uh known for a long time. Uh and I gotta say, Brian, when I moved to LA and I first uh really started seeing you guys and getting to know you, you were a guy that when I saw you, I don't want to say it scared me, but it was very intimidating to see you play, especially probably the first time I saw Jacob for Jazz Odyssey, and sit back and watch you do what to me were amazing, unexplainable things that were just flowing out of your mind. Um, and it was always inspiring, um, always something that sent me to the piano to like keep working at my thing. But um, I love the bar that you've raised in the world of improvisational piano. Don't leave me just yet, you know. And I I I wanted to open with that because um, you know, you've always been, in my mind, in the modern world of piano playing, such a unique um iconoclast, and you've really made a path for yourself that um is unlike anybody that I know. So um welcome. Thank you. Yeah. And um, so a lot of people who uh might know you might be familiar with uh the things that you've done, but people who don't know you, um what would you tell people that you're best known or most recognized for, musically speaking?

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Well, I currently play with a lot of different bands, but the band that most people associate me with is Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey. Um let me just put Cagny down. See if I can get her to stay put in her bed. She's very frisky all of a sudden, of course. The second I second I need her to be chill. Come here, my love. So, I mean, a lot of people, you know, Jacob Fred, for years we did 300 shows a year. We were really, really, really pushing our concept in in a religious way. I mean, if John Coltrane is your religion, then that's the religious concept that we were pushing. Yeah. Um, so most people would know me from Jacob Fred. Uh I'm also very deeply associated with Mike Dillon, one of the world's greatest composers and vibraphonists. He's on tour right now with Les Claypool. But Mike and I, Mike Dillon and I have been in a musical partnership since '97 or '98. Wow. Um, and so I'm also associated with Mike. Uh, but I'm lucky enough being based out of New Orleans for most of every year. Um, I'm in Santa Fe right now because it's summer, and that changes New Orleans greatly. Yes. Um, but I'm I'm lucky enough to be able to play with a lot of really forward-thinking, progressive musicians who aren't heavily limited, heavily limited by academia or preconceived um notions about what music is, about what improvisation is.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um I'm really known as an improviser, and I mean I feel just incredibly grateful I can make a living um improvising and playing with a variety of different groups where improvisation is the main focus.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

One of the main bands I play with right now is Nola Tet. We just put out our third album, and that's a band where it's myself and three of my heroes. Uh, I mean, with the current state of the music business and just the current state of Planet Earth, people have a very short attention span. And so I would say right now I probably play with 10 different projects, and none of them play jazz standards, none of them are tourist jazz, none of them are tribute bands, none of those bands play the music of the Grateful Dead. Um, I'm just very, very lucky the music that I play um is music that is deeply, deeply meaningful to me every second that I'm on stage doing it.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I feel like every project that you're in is um I don't want to say boundaryless because you you create a sound with no lettet and with different projects that you've been in, but there's not a label for it. You're not coming into a style, you're creating your own wing on whatever building people would try to attach to jazz or New Orleans or whatever. Um I really respect that because to create something new and not just copy what's come before um is hard. And a lot of people, you know, when you're young, you try to copy styles, right? I copied Elton John and Billy Joel stylings, you know, as a teenager trying to do whatever I thought to do. But um, as you get inspired by different things, and you've always been an inspired guy, um, things change until you're on your own path, and then you're just inspiring yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Yeah, I mean, I'm also really lucky that all the people I work with are people who I find super inspiring. Yes. Um, from Nikki Gillespie to Helen Gillet, we have a band called Tefra. Um then Nola Tet, it's my heroes with Jacob Fred, it's Reed Mathis and Jason Smart. They're playing at an insanely high level. They always challenge me.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I have Compulsion Trio, that's myself and Scarrick and Stanton Moore. I have the Compersion Quartet that's one of the greatest living drummers, Simon Lott, with Scarrick and James Singleton and myself. I mean, all of the ensembles are super focused on, I guess what you would call creative improvised music.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Uh Johnny Vadakovich has gotten us away from using the word jazz because people will immediately think you're talking about Najee or the Yellow Jackets or something like I mean, people like the the you know, lowest common denominator public listener who I'm always striving to make music for, yeah. That when they hear the word jazz, they just think smooth jazz. And they're not thinking Coltrane. Right. You know, they're not thinking of Love Supreme, they're not thinking first meditations, they're thinking some kind of smooth jazz that's on the local radio station. And so Johnny Vadakovich is really Johnny V is one of the greatest drummers alive. He's Stanton Moore's teacher, Brian Blade's teacher. If you don't know Johnny Vadakovic, he's super easy to find. He's been on hundreds of albums. Um but Johnny has really gotten us away from using the word jazz. Uh, Nicholas Payton has also gotten us away from using the word jazz. He makes fun of us every time we use it. So um it really is creative improvised music, and all of us, we love all genres. We're not like genre addicted. Like, I mean, everybody I play with is at their core just a huge music fan. Right. And so we love every style of music, and so when we're creating new creative improvised music, whether it's totally from scratch, like Tefra or or um compulsion or compersion, those three bands, Tefra, Compulsion Trio, Compersion Quartet, we make everything from scratch, no preconceived notions, but our mission statement is to make the music beautiful, not make it chaotic, right? Right. Or no la tete or Jacob Fred, where we are actually playing compositions, but it's still heavily improvised. Our goal is to make beautiful music.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yes. Which you do, and but also sometimes challenging music. Also, sometimes music that you're not quite sure where it's going, but you're along for this journey. We I remember there was a point in the early Jacob Fred, early 2000s shows where maybe you guys were going a little more out, and we were talking about the balance of having to kind of bring people back into a space where they kind of get what's going on before you take them to outer space again, you know? Yeah. All yang, no yin.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Right. I mean, and that's the thing, as we've gotten older, we've become better people. And I always say, if you want to become a better musician, first become a better person. I like that. So we've all become better at being good humans, and so we've become better musicians and more grounded, and our music has become less chaotic. And I think it's even when it is totally free improv, what I hear through the grapevine is that it's still very listenable. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

So, yeah, and it's funny because jazz it does carry connotations, and it's funny trying to put Scaric and Najee in the same, like to draw a line between those two players is wild. But um, jazz is kind of like rock and roll, where it's a very big umbrella and it keeps stretching, and a lot of things can fit under it, whereas something like country or reggae or blues is a little more rigid, and if you get too far out, you're not in.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, yeah, we're heavily we're heavily influenced by all of that, especially rock and roll. Like, yeah, my god, when you say rock, music, I mean, it just means so many different things. Yeah, I mean, two bands, two bands that that make me laugh that have almost the exact same band name, but the music could not be more difficult, I mean, more different. They're both rock bands. You've got goose and you've got geese.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah. And it's so funny to me. People get them confused all the time, and I mean they're both rock bands, but my gosh, like they're so completely different, and that's what makes rock music so beautiful is that it's just so all over the place. And I wish people had more of an open mind, like when you say jazz, I wish they thought of a hundred different things, right? Like you would if you say rock, but unfortunately, they don't, they just think Kenny G, they they think smooth jazz. And so, you know, Johnny Vadakovich is such a teacher of mine, and I'm also lucky enough to play with him in Nola Tet. And he's like, Brah. Stop, tell that promoter to stop calling it jazz. It's gonna ruin the gig. And I'm like, yeah, Johnny, I'll call him, I'll text him, I'll send an email. He's like, Brah, I saw the promo for Denver. They call this jazz, it's gonna kill it. No women are gonna show up. I'm like, yeah, Johnny, I'll let him know. Creative improvised music from New Orleans. It's not jazz, it's beyond jazz. It's something new. And I mean, you know, jazz education in a lot of ways, I mean, I've heard, of course, dude, I'm a student of this music and I love music. So every once a year, when that time of year comes around, I listen to every single jazz thing that won a Grammy, whether it's for the instrumental music category, because it's my dream to win a Grammy someday. Any musician who says that they don't care about winning a Grammy, I I know it's I I know that there it's to it to a degree it's rigged and and it's like a good old boy network. I know that. But any musician who says they don't care about winning a Grammy is lying. It's it's it it's a great medal of honor for just years and decades and hundreds of thousands of hours of hard work. So it's like I'm always curious, well, what won Grammys this year? I'm always very open-minded. Yeah. And you know, jazz academia and just music school in general is trying as hard as it can. You and I have been having this conversation literally almost 30 years. Yeah. I mean, I I have one of those keyboard magazine articles framed here in the house. Right. We've been having the same conversation where I'm like, going to school for music is only 5%. Yes. You still have to create your own voice and develop a soul inside your body. Yes. And I'm just so amazed at how much shit wins Grammys, where I'm like, I mean, this has a lot of notes, right? But it is soulless. Like, you guys need to go out in the woods and do some praying and some meditating. Get naked, roll around in the dirt, and cry a little bit. Like, my God, man.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

So this is the Do you think that early jazz, because there was such a struggle, civil rights struggle and whatnot, that some of that struggle was what made that music so like intense and people wanting to move it forward that we don't have that kind of a struggle in the jazz world now?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Maybe so. I think that's a part of it, right? But also just like life was dirtier back then. There was no such thing as hand sanitizer. Right. You just life was filthy. And so the music reflected the filth of real life. Now everybody washes their hands a million times a day and is constantly scrubbing hand sanitizer on themselves and wearing masks everywhere, and it's everything's gotta be clean and perfect, and oh my god, it's gotta be shiny. And I mean, I just don't think that's a recipe for good music.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I mean, as a piano player, which you you and I both are, I don't like getting stuff on my fingers, so I'll wash my hands just because if I had peanut butter.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

We gotta keep we gotta we gotta keep this thing clean, we gotta keep our hands clean. You can't play if you're sticking to the instrument. But I guess I just mean like back, you know, people weren't taking showers three times a day. It was okay if you could smell people's armpits. Yeah. Just like simple things like that, I think, made the music richer, earthier, more honest. Like, you know, like I told you, I'm a student of music, bro. I love music more than anybody I know, and I always go through and listen to everything that won Grammys. And sometimes I'm like, whoa, this is brilliant. I didn't even know these cats were this brilliant. And sometimes I'm like, this is the safest, cleanest, sterile bullshit I've ever heard in my entire life. Like, who would even want to listen to this? Right. So, you know, it's man, it's just a constant process of of uh, you know, maintaining your sense of humor. Um, practicing non-judgment, you know, always being thankful for your friend's success, always being thankful for your enemy's success, like always finding a way, like, man, I hate this guy's music, but I'm so glad he's not embedded in the pharmaceutical, military, industrial complex. I'm so glad he's not shipping weapons to Israel right now. At least he's making music. Right. I fucking hate his music. I can barely stand to listen to 16 bars, but man, thank God he's not a pharmaceutical salesman or he's not like a defense contractor working for Lockheed Martin. Thank God he's making music. So it's always like about finding a way to be thankful for other people's success. Right. Always, man. That's one of the most important things is like listen to it. You can go, okay. Instead of saying I hate it, what I can say is like, okay, that's not for me. Right. That's not for me. Right. I'm so glad that this brother who used to open up for me at the knitting factory or who used to open up for me at every jazz fest, I'm so glad he's just won three Grammys.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Good for him. You know what? If he can do it, I can do it. You know? And then people say, well, what do you think about his music? I'm like, it's not for me. Right. It's just a gentle way to put it off. It's not for me. But man, he's not he's not working for Lockheed Martin. Yep. So God, so God bless him. So he's making music, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Music's the most important thing. Right. With with you doing so much live improvisational music, we're in an age where obviously people talk about AI creating music, and the one place AI cannot create music is the stage. So to me, the stage is the last place. When I say the stage, I mean studio, wherever you are, where you have to actually touch an instrument and play. That's the last bastion of uh reality. You know what I mean? So who would have thought that you and I chose the safest thing to do for a living? I mean, in some ways, it's it seems like a radical act. There was a time where playing piano and playing boogie and blues felt like being a buggy whip you know maker in the age of the automobile, and then all of a sudden now we're rare birds because who plays piano anymore?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Exactly. Exactly. Like I'll roll into venues with offender roads, and people will be like, I've only heard of these. Right. I didn't think anybody actually still used one.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Or what's that organ that you got there? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

So a buddy of mine who's in Silicon Valley, always been a devotee of new tech, he recently presented a list of the safest jobs that AI will never be able to usurp. And professional touring musician was one of them. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? I was like, yay, I made it.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I mean, even if you could if you could make a robot that could sit at a piano, and why would you have to make a humanoid? You could just make the piano play itself. But make a robot that sits at the piano and plays any piece that you wanted to, it's still not as exciting as flesh and blood touching wood and strings.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Maybe it just sound like most of the shit that wins Grammys.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah. So yeah, the last bastion of reality is our minds and the piano. And the piano, look, for the history of the instrument, going back to the 1700s, Christophorian, all the iterations of it, once we got into the well-tempered, you know, tunings and whatnot, it's an equalizer. So you and I sit at an instrument without petals, without amps, without changing tones, and that instrument is what it is. You can't really do anything different to it, but when you play it, making your personality come out, being recognizable. You know, you hear Thelonious Monk, and within a couple notes, you know it's monk. How hard is it to be recognizable within a few years on PM?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

When you hear when you hear this.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Oh, that's monk. He took so what he did in my mind is he took dissonance, which was not good, and added it to rhythm and percussion and made it good.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Dude, he combined Bartok and Prokofiev with the blues.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah. And so I read a fact that he wrote something in the realm of 70, 75 pieces. Duke Ellington wrote over a thousand, but Polonius's 70 or so pieces have been covered and recorded more than all of Duke's. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

You know? Yeah. It's because of the uniqueness of the voice. Yeah. Duke also was a great pianist, incredible composer. Um, but just nobody, you know, the voice that Monk came up with. You know, the first jazz record I ever got into was that funny, ugly, tan, yellow record of monks. It's got the this it's like ochre. It's this funny yellow, and it's called Genius, Genius of Modern Music, Volume 1. Every song is like two minutes. Okay. And it's that changed my life forever because I didn't think that I would be able to play within the jazz idiom when I was 16.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Well, what were you listening to right before you you c that record came to you? What was your musical upbringing up until then?

SPEAKER_00 19:33

It was all deep classical. Like I was training when Sean Leighton handed me that Thelonious Monk album, I was training for the 1997 Van Kleiburn. So I was amassing huge amounts of material. Yeah. I had just given my I was on a full ride scholarship for classical music at University of Tulsa. I had just given my junior recital first semester of my freshman year. I gave my senior recital second semester of my freshman year with all different material. So in my freshman year, I gave my junior recital and my senior recital because I was amassing huge amounts of material. Because to make it into the Van Kleiburn, you have to have all that memorized.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

You know, it's like five Beethoven piano concertos, three Mozart piano concertos, a bartok piano concerto of your choosing, a Prokofiev piano concerto of your choosing, five Mozart piano sonatas, this this piece, this piece. You could choose with, but it all had to be, you had to have a certain amount. It was basically like you had to show up there with like 50 hours of music fully memorized. So when Sean Leighton, who was eventually the drummer and Jacob Fred, handed me that that Thelonious Monk album, I literally scoffed at it. And I scoffed at it. I said, I would never quit classical music. And Sean said, Well, Sean said, because I was just 16. You could hear me in the practice rooms playing the shit out of all this material, playing circles around all the college kids. And Sean Lincoln goes, Well, I've been listening to you practice now for a couple months, and you playing classical music is an absolute waste of your talent. Wow. It's like he's like, You can think whatever you want, say whatever you want. He was like, I'm sorry that you've been indoctrinated into this lie, but you playing classical music is a waste. Check out this dude. And I went home. Well, actually, I put it in the my truck on the drive from TU back to my parents' house in Broken Arrow. I knew within the first song that's what I would do for a living. That's amazing. Because I it it made it made jazz accessible and understandable to me. That one monk record showed me, oh, jazz isn't about sounding like all these incredible young prodigies. Jazz is about sounding like yourself.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

That's when I had that, you know, and that's why there's so many cats in the business who I, you know, I'm not super impressed with. 15 pianists who have been on the cover of Downbeat, and all they're good at is copying Herbie.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

That's really all they're good at. They don't have their own voice. All they're good at is copying Herbie from from this area, for from this era. A little bit of Herbie from this era. Some 70s shit. His 80s duo stuff with Wayne. Like, I'm just like, you guys are just stringing together Herbie licks. You guys have no nothing unique, nothing that's really your own voice. And so I never wanted to do that. And also I'm not good at that. I'm not good. And so that's something else that's key. Like, I'm not good at sounding like other people.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Which that's been a detriment to my career, but it's also enabled me to just fully be myself and create my own sound.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Well, that's the opposite of a detriment, is that you were able to become more of yourself and to become something unique.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

It's better, it it's more of a it's more of a viable long-term concept.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

You know, what what the what the jazz industrial complex supports is imitators. Yeah. It doesn't, it does not support innovators.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Well, a lot of people innovate by going avant-garde, and then it's squeak squonk and then it's too much. They're thinking you have to be anti-melodic to innovate, and that's not the case.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

No. All you gotta do to innovate is be yourself. Yeah and have the courage to be yourself and not copy other people. Right. So my my trajectory is more of a long-term concept with long-term, with long-term more spiritual rewards and less short-term bullshit accolades from a dying industry. And I'm fine, and I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

With all the playing that you do, and I I'm sure playing in different bands, you get to do different versions of yourself and different iterations, but how do you kind of get out of your old patterns? How do you um try to keep freshening up and changing what you do as you evolve when we all know there's you know a limited amount of notes, patterns, uh, there's no 15th chord, there's no key of H. You know what I mean? It ends and it infinitely loops like a circuit board, right? So um, how do you keep like moving into fresh ideas when you know, like me, you wear patterns into your brain over time that are comfortable or runs? Like when you hear Art Tatum and he does these runs down the piano, it's like you've done those for your whole life.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Dude, what a beast! God, I worship him. I have so much of him on vinyl. And yeah, he does have some things that he does to set the piano on fire, to set the room on fire, and also to cleanse his own palate, right? Right. So the answer to your question is full straight edge sobriety. Really? Um, I just celebrated, I guess, the 21st of June was one year sober from all ganja, all THC, all cannabis related materials.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Um, and that was thank you. And I'm three years sober from booze. I don't talk about this, but since you asked, yeah, I'll answer your question. You're also one of my oldest friends. Yes. So I have no problem communicating this to you. Um it was about a year ago, a little over a year ago, um I heard myself play the same. I was on tour with Mike Dillon and Nikki Gillespie. Yeah. I heard myself play the same roughly eight-bar lick two nights in a row. Because this is a direct answer to your question.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

And I knew on stage I would not be smoking cannabis ever again for the rest of my life. Rest of your life? Oh, yeah. Big statement. There's no reason to. I've already learned everything I need to know from it. Right. One of the greatest teachers ever. Ever. Cannabis has been one of the greatest allies. But I've had enough. Yep. And when you're saturated, you're saturated. For sure. I've literally smoked weed that was grown by Jesus, Bob Marley, and Louis Armstrong all together holding hands, touching cocks.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

I have smoked that weed. I have smoked the weed that was grown by Coltrane, that was grown by Louis Armstrong, grown by Bob Marley, and all his ancestors. I have actually smoked that weed. You know I have. I know you have. You've smelled my jars. I have smelled those jars. But the thing is, none of that weed made me a better musician or artist. It made me think I was playing better, but it never made me play any better. And I came here, and that's a what that's the interesting thing about uh alcohol and and really all drugs, like whether it's MDMA on stage or cannabis on stage, whatever it may be, it always makes you think that you sound better. It never makes the audience think that you sound better ever. So this is a direct answer to your question. This is not me proselytizing for sobriety. People will find that on their own accord, or they won't. It's not my business. Right. But I can tell you, you ask me a question. How do you make sure you don't play licks? The way I make sure I don't play licks is by fucking raw dogging life every day. Yep. Straight edge sobriety, bro. That's the only way I can make sure I don't play licks. Straight edge sobriety is the new high. Bro, I am so fucking high doing this shit. It's insane. Yeah, man. I have to take calcium magnesium every night, L-theanine, melatonin, dude. I get in bed and I'm just like, get up and practice, get up and practice, get up and compose. You almost finished that song. You need to do your left-hand exercises, you need to do arpeggios, you need to do sevens. You know, it's like, I, dude, I am so fucking high from being sober. It is completely nuts.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

I love that for you. You just reminded me of a there's a clip of Duke Ellington on um, oh, who was the talk show guy? I forgot he was talking, he has huge bags under his eyes. He's talking about his sleep patterns, and he says, I if I get music in my head, I wake up and I go pursue it. So sometimes I don't sleep, or I sleep an hour, or it's just I constantly, if it's in my head, I gotta get it out.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Dick happiness.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

That was dick, yeah, yeah. So I take magnesium three inate, which just puts your brain to sleep. I take theanine, I take great melatonin made by Quicksilver, and I take crushed up cowbone. I take microcrystalline hydroxyapetite.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

So I have a very, very specific thing that I have to take every night to go to sleep, or bro, I'll just end up back at the fucking piano. Right. Um, when I heard myself repeat that eight-bar phrase, it was crazy. It was not intentional. It was completely came from my subconscious. But just like the night before, it was a packed show, and everybody in the audience went, oh and so what happens? Two nights in a row, you play the same shit, everybody in the audience goes, ooh, when you do it, well, what do you think is gonna fucking happen on the third night? You're gonna do it again. And so I don't want to play. Yeah, I don't want to play music like that, bro. I'm a I'm a John Coltrane devotee. John Coltrane did not play licks. And when McCoy was in John's band, McCoy did not play licks. Now there are a couple, we won't go into that, but there are a few things that McCoy would do to like reset the stage and to get Elvin to come down in volume.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

I don't begrudge that. But like, dude, Coltrane did not play fucking licks, and I'm a Coltrane devotee. Like, yeah, when I'm on my deathbed, you know, and another reason I'm straight edge sober is because when I am on my deathbed, I want to die knowing I gave this life 192%. I don't want to be on my deathbed wondering, could I have been better? Could I do better? No way. Bro, these are deathbed practices. I'm 52 years old, I'm halfway dead. I don't have time to fuck around anymore. Yeah, man. No more fucking around, no more playing around. Straight edge sobriety. I still fuck with coffee, you can tell.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah. And wheatgrass, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yeah, you know, I fuck with wheatgrass. I'm super into natural medicine.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Um you always have I want to be on my deathbed. When I die, when I'm laying there fucking dying, I want to know I gave this life everything I could.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

A hundred percent. And you are. I mean, I I've never seen you in a phase of your musical career where you're not doing something incredible or turning. I mean, it's been a joy to watch and to be able to play with you at some times or just watch you up close. Um, again, it's always inspiring, and it leads me wanting to dig deeper into going back to the classical upbringing that you had. Sometimes in that situation, you're tasked with here, play this composer or play that because you have to. Um, what were the composers that like set you off and and gave you uh like a really good interest back then? But also uh which ones have you carried with you that are kind of still your guys, your back pocket guys, you know?

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Well, um JS box voice leading. So JS Black Notes.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Um, the stuff that Beethoven did right at the end of his life, those very last you know what I'm talking about, right? Oh my god, bro, that fifth piano concerto. Talk about on your deathbed and being deaf and still trying to The Gross Beau, just pushing so hard. Yeah. I mean he he, you know, again, people who were who changed everything in some ways just by being themselves.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Hindemith's Mathis der Mahler, the greatest symphonic works of all time. Listen to it when we get off of this call. I will. Mathis der Mahler by Hindemith, you'll be like, oh my god. That's where Haas gets so much of his harmonic call and response. Bartok string quartets, all the Prokofiev's piano concertos, all the Prokofiev's um symphonies, Stravinsky's symphonies, Shostakovich symphonies. Yeah. Um I meant to say Stravinsky's orchestral works and Shostakovich's symphonies.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Um what else? Bartok piano concertos? That's what I was playing when I quit classical music. Wow. I was playing Bartok's second and third piano concerto, and they were completely ruining my life. And I'm still they're impossible. They're impossible.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

So when you quit when you switched over impossible. When you switched out of classical, did you basically just not play classical anymore? Or were you still for a while trying to keep your your chops, your classical chops up?

SPEAKER_00 34:39

I had to to get that four-year degree from TU. Yeah. I had to keep playing classical music, even though I'd already given my junior recital first semester freshman year, senior recital second semester of my freshman year. I still had to play classical music all the way through the end of my senior year. But bro, the second I graduated from TU, I completely quit playing classical music.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

And haven't haven't really played since, aside from little snippets.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yeah, I mean, everything I just played for you right there obviously was just completely improvised.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

I mean, I mean that that was just me imitating the composers I was I was speaking about, right? Um like all of the great composers have something to offer. All of them. There's something to learn from all of them. Like Chopin's Audes, I learned so much from his piano music and from his piano concerto. I mean, Ravel's string quartet, Debussy's string quartet, oh my god. You know, they each only wrote one string quartet.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Right, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

So when you're looking around on Apple Music, usually they're on the same album. It'll be string quartets, Ravel Debussy. Listen to those back to back. The harmonic information just in those two pieces of music, you spent a lifetime trying to decipher. Just the Ravel string quartet and the WC string quartet. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Now, back then, before recording, the only way you could record and write was on sheet music. So I feel like in the age of the great composers, let's say, you know, Handel, 1720, Bach, you know, back in those ages, Vivaldi, all the way up to, you know, 1920, kind of when classical was dominant, like a good 200 years. I think that's why we people composed like that was because it was all composing on paper. Whereas nowadays, because unless you lock yourself in a cabin with only sheet music, you know, you're you're using electronics, you're using different things you can record on your phone, you know. So is that why you think maybe um or why I think that we don't have modern Mozarts and composers because nobody actually composes that way anymore?

SPEAKER_00 36:45

I mean, they exist. Like I brought up uh Sean Leighton from Jacob Fred. He was a drummer who composed directly from the ether into his head into a pencil on paper. I mean, I watched him do it all the time. I I have one of the pieces that he did here in my books. I mean, I can show it to you. Like he literally, I keep it just as a reminder. Because I'm, you know, I'm composing constantly. I use Dorico to compose.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

So Sean Leighton, I watched him do this. He wrote this blues for a transphobian exile. Well, I was sitting at his house. He wrote out the beef and then he transposed the B flap part just sitting there. Wow. Like my first my first inspiration, the guy who got me out of classical music, he was one of the greatest musicians I've ever been around in my entire life. If he would have been able, if he would have been able to stay alive and not kill himself, Sean Leighton would be a modern day Mozart.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Man.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Um, I watched him write that. That's why I keep this piece. Yeah. Because it's just insane. This is the original. He didn't make any mistakes. There that this is not the corrected version. And then he put a cup of coffee down on it right after he wrote it. See? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like it was nothing to him. He made no corrections. He literally sat there, he heard it in his head, wrote it directly down. But I mean, he's one in a billion. Like, there's very few people like this still alive. I mean, I use Dorico, stuff will come into my head. I sit, I put it into Dorico, I'll play it on a little tiny Akai kind of MIDI thing into the Dorico program, and then I'll hit play, and then I go, oh, that sounds like shit. And then I'll change it and I'll alter it.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

But you know, it's a it's like a what it's a it's trial and error, right? Right. There are cats alive. Maybe they all end up killing themselves because of the chaos of this modern age. But there are we still have Mozarts and Beethoven's. It's just it's such a strange time, right, bro? Like, right, in order for anybody to pay attention to your music now, your capitalism has to be as creative as your art. Sadly. I mean, true Mozarts and Beethovens, they're probably wandering around out in the woods wearing gunny sacks and sandals.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

I don't know. I mean, you think about all of the people whose music has been lost. I mean, Bach's music was almost lost. I think it was it Mendelssohn who had saved his tran his uh transcripts, his sheets or something. I think so. Something like, you know, the amount of. It was one of it, it was one of his students, right? I I I I vaguely it could have been Bach's son. But you know, that that could have easily been lost, and then the impact of all that music would have so Mozart had a sister that was supposedly super talented, but women weren't given the opportunity to go to school to write for an orchestra, so you know, or or you could be a guy in the desert in Sudan with freaking symphonies firing off in your head and no way to do anything. Although now with with an iPhone, what can't you do? You know? Yeah. We might end up capturing more music. Um talk to me about piano players in classical for just a moment. Um one of the albums that I love is Rubinstein's uh album of Chopin's Nocturnes. And his touch, obviously, the deeper you are into classical, the more players you would know. But hearing that made me realize that the player bringing this music to life makes a big difference while at the same time, you know, the way that pianos were tuned back when Chopin and Liz were playing playel pianos and they had, you know, each section of the piano almost had a different sound to it. Um we're hearing somebody playing in a in a temperament that was not that it wasn't written in. Um how do you feel about this in terms of reproducing the music uh as it was originally intended?

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Well, it has to do with the soul of the person uh translating.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

It just it it it's it's like we said earlier, if you want to be a better musician, become a better human, like I I really do think it has to do with the depth of that human who's who's engaging in the recreation. Like a great example would be as a kid, I didn't really care that much about box preludes and fugues until I heard Glenn Gould play them. Yeah. And then I started going down to Glenn Gould wormhole, and then the way he reinvents the Mozart piano sonatas with all the incorrect, he plays all the wrong markings and wrong tempos and just makes them all his.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

And that was controversial at the time because you're not supposed to touch the masters, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:42

And and that to me, Glenn Gould made me fall in love with classical piano again.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

It's amazing to me how a player, like to talk about Rubinstein and to talk about the difference.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

On the nocturnes, come on.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

But it's like uh was it Frank Zappa, I think, had the quote talking about music is like dancing about architecture.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

And so how do you quantify what makes it so great? The touch, the soul, the feel.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

It's the same way, like people like will ask me about a specific drummer. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know. It's the feel. Yeah, it can't be, it's not technique. It's not technique. No, it's like Johnny Vadakovich, Simon Lott, yeah, Matt Chamberlain, Brian Blade.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

It's they're all different. It's not like Neil Peter and Johnny V are gonna be out side by side doing the same thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Why do we love it so much? It's the feel. Like, we've been Mike and I have done some gigs with the ex-drummer from Humphreys McGee, Chris Myers.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

And we're like, Mike and I are literally on stage, like with our jaws dropped. Because you know, you bring in a cat, you're like, oh, he's a badass drummer, he's got great chops. Yeah, we'll see what he can do. Yeah, no, no, no, no. It's feel, it's something intangible I cannot describe. Like, does some of the shit Chris Myers has done live on the bandstand? Mikey and I are just standing there watching and listening. We completely forget to come in. We're just like, what are you doing to the song? It's never done this. The song's never sound like this. And it's, yeah, sure, Chris has great technique. Yeah, he studied with one of the Zappa guys. Sure, he's put in the time. Thousands and thousands and thousands of hours, right? Just like Matt Chamberlain.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Just like Johnny V, just like Simon Lott, just like Stanton Moore, some of the people on Nikki Glasby, of course.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Although with Matt Chamberlain, that album you did, Prometheus Rising, where he was looping you while you got while you were playing with him. That's its own level of like I I when you were describing that to me, you're like, I'm playing with him, and then I'm hearing loops coming, and I'm realizing while he's playing, some very complicated, cool stuff. He's also listening to me on a level where he's looping me against myself. Like the listening it takes for that, and incredible. Again, like feel and the ability to listen. If you're gonna teach a kid or give a kid advice nowadays, hey, you're coming up in music, feel and listening, they're so uh hard to like they're so intangible in some ways that it's hard to what advice do you give to improve your feel and your listening, other than just keep playing, keep listening.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean I'm so lucky all the drummers I play with are are at that level. Yeah, literally all of them. All of them. They all have their own feel, their own voice. Nikki Glasby, the shit she's been doing lately, unfathomable. I love her drumming. Oh my god. It's like uh like three different symphonies coalescing and agreeing on a common theme. I mean, it's just so yeah. I mean, it is feel, and it's that same way with pianists. Like, why does Gould it's the way Gould plays the well-tempered clavier? It's not the technique. There's millions of pianists with the same kind of technique, it's the feel, and the feel is an intangible spiritual thing. Same with the way Rubinstein plays Chopin's Nocturnes, yeah, or or like the way let's say um Ashkenazi, Vladimir Ashkenazi plays Prokofiev. The way Oshkenazi, the way Ashkenazi plays the Prokofiev piano concertos, they never need to be played ever again, ever. Ever. He completely defined how to play that music. And he's Russian. Yeah. He's a Russian Jew, you know, and it's like, oh my god, it's like Prokofiev wrote the piano concertos for Vladimir Ashkenazi to play them. Amazing. When you hear, I'm getting goosebumps right now. Like, yeah, I mean, it is just completely unfathomable. And of course, there's a million pianists who have Emmanuel Axe has a better technique than Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi is more of like a like a battlefield warrior.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

But like nobody can hang with the way he plays certain things, man.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

It's something to give an individual like uh playing of something that is iconic that other people have played and really make it your own is just that extra level in that world.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

Yeah. Incredible.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

So so that's something I work on all the time at the piano is light lightness of touch, always creating new exercises, always creating new arpeggios, new scales that don't exist, that challenge my hands to do brand new shapes, yeah, brand new things, right? Yeah, and do it lightly, do it with class, do it with taste, do it with tenderness, do it with femininity. I try to play as lightly as I can.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

And yeah, when I you're a you're a pugilist sometimes, you know? Yeah. I mean, I like to think of you you remember Bruce Lee, he had the one-inch punch where he'd hold his fist, and without recoil, with one inch, his whole body would go into it. I feel like every finger that hits a key is that one inch punch, and the dynamic of hitting it softly still has your whole spine behind it because we're really playing from our wings. We're you know, when you hunch over, you got about like here up. The minute you sit up straight, you got your wings. So even if you're playing soft, that one inch punch is bringing out this the snap and the pop of the note, you know?

SPEAKER_00 47:26

100%. Like sometimes I do intensives here at the house where I bring up uh it only works with professional musicians. You have to be a professional pianist in order for it to make sense. Okay, but I'll bring in somebody, they'll give me a nice chunk of change, and we'll do an intensive here in Santa Fe. And one of the first things that I work on is teaching pianists to play the piano with their legs and their spine instead of playing the piano with their fingers and their hands and their arms. Yes. You're never gonna get past a certain point if you think playing the piano is something you do with your hands and your arms and your fingers. Right. It's just not the case. That's not how you become a brilliant pianist. Full body. It's full body. You start with your toes and you work up. Yeah. And that's the only way to really activate your spine. And so I have, you know, extra yoga mats here for the pianists that come here for the intensives. And you if you you we don't get you don't get to sit at the piano unless you can get on the yoga mat. Nice. Because there's just certain things that you'll never be able to do on the instrument ever. And I like the and I like it. Unless you can do a few things on the yoga mat that are very specific, you're never gonna get your pianism past a certain point.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

The the idea of playing from your feet. Um two things. One and from your toes. I there was an interview I randomly saw years ago of Julio Iglesias. He was on Oprah, and he was describing he has these certain leather Italian shoes because when he sings, he curls his toes when he gets certain emotions. And I remember thinking that like was so cool because he's dope drawing from his from his toes. So when you said that, um that's that really is great. My I had always grown up too much on too hard on the pedal. And uh one of my mentors, Gene Oster, who you met, uh he I remember he saying to me, gotta lay off that pedal. Come on, lay off that pedal. So sometimes when I sit and practice or m you know, mess around, I'll just keep my feet off the pedal and keep it as syncopated as possible. Some songs that I write are dependent on a pedal sound, but um you know, when you get into syncopation and stuff like that, uh the pedal needs to stay out of the way.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Being in New Orleans, I was gonna say, some of my Fender Rhodes pianos I tour with don't have a sustain pedal.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I sustain I sustain with my hands.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Like an organ player.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Yeah. You don't need a sustain pedal, it it can be a great crutch.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

And there's a really interesting, as long as you brought up pedal.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

There's a great pianist who I really love in New Orleans. His name is Oscar Rosignoli. Okay. What he does with the soft pedal, he and I did a a double solo piano concert of the music of James Singleton on like one of the best Steinways I've ever been on. And Oscar and I have very different styles, um, but they're very complimentary. What Oscar does with the soft pedal completely changed my life. Wow. Changed my life. I never used that pedal. I never did until I heard Oscar Rosignoli do it live. It was brilliant. Wow. And it informed his entire concept. I would say, in some ways, what I saw him do was based around the soft pedal.

unknown 51:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Because he only did certain things when the soft pedal was down. And the soft pedal was down a lot. And he would only release the soft pedal and play full sound when certain things were accomplished. Wow. It was like there was a checklist of things that had to happen with the soft pedal down before the soft pedal was allowed to be released. Amazing. It was bro.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

And you wouldn't have thought of that because again, with the piano, you feel like everything's been done, but no.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

Bro, this kid, what he did with the soft pedal and how he let it control what he did on the piano.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Was truly brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

We will have to investigate him.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

You're gonna have to see him probably see him do it live. I mean, I think it's on his solo piano record that he just put out. I'm sure he's crushing the soft pedal. But it might not be something that when you're listening to the record, you register that. I'm curious. I need to listen to the record on my home stereo system. Yeah. I've I've listened to it in the car, it's hard to tell.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

But but like what he did live with the soft pedal, pianist, take note. There's a whole set of colors and shapes that we are completely disregarding by not using the soft pedal. Man, I love that. So, man, I've incorporated into my practice here in at both my New Orleans piano and my Santa Fe piano. I've been using the soft pedal a ton. Changes everything.

SPEAKER_01 52:40

It changes when you changes middle pedal or left pedal?

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Left pedal. He also uses the middle pedal sometimes, but check this out. Here, I'll show you what I'm talking about. Yeah. Here's full sound. Here's soft pedal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

That's really cool. See what I'm saying? Yeah. Really cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Whole different trip.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Yeah. And I can hear when you lift it off and it's, you know, brightens up.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Ah, and it and then it and it like, ah, and then it and then it murmurs and it contemplates and it and and it like goes super internal and it becomes like, uh, like, what's the word I'm looking for? It's like um you become like quiet and private, and like you're you're really like trying to flesh out this idea, and then you let off the pedal and the idea explodes, and you're able to make the statement, and then you go into contemplation and you go into private, you go into a like a mode of secrecy.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

And then and then you determine this is worth saying, and ah, you let it explode. I mean, bro.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

I know what I as soon as we're off of this, I'm gonna go and step on the left pedal and just get to it. Let me ask you, because I know we're gonna wrap up here in a moment. You're in New Orleans, there's a history of piano in New Orleans that is deep. Um guys like James Booker define kind of the sound of New Orleans in some ways. Um, Roosevelt Sykes, um always a touchstone for me. What of the New Orleans piano history are you more in touch with now being there so much?

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Well, you know, Johnny and James were the rhythm section for James Booker. Which puts you in an interesting driver's seat. Like 100%. Yeah. I mean, Johnny Vadakovich has only been French kissed by one man. James Booker.

SPEAKER_01 55:24

And he had an eye patch.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

Yeah. I mean, only one man was quick enough to get his tongue in Johnny Vadakovich's mouth, bro. Um you still have time, bro. You still have time. You know, it's like, and and also they played with Fess a lot. I mean, I'm super influenced by all that. Yeah. And I've studied all that. And I bought all the Professor Longhair transcriptions and the James Booker transcriptions. Um, and I've and I've sat there and played through them. I secretly do theme and variations. I don't do it live, but what I'll do is I'll take a James Booker song, I'll play it, and then I'll start to extrapolate on it.

SPEAKER_02 55:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

Um, and I use it as a vehicle for theme and variations, right? So I mean I study those pianists, and man, there's some great pianists in that town who are not re-enactors. Right. But a lot of the pianists in New Orleans are reenacting music that's already been played. And at least somebody is, in a way. Like Yeah, and I mean, some of them are, you know, I mean, they're all super nice guys. I love every single one of them. They're just great people. I mean, look, man, New Orleans is the friendliest city in the entire world. When you're sitting on your porch sipping coffee in the morning, you better have a few extra chairs on your porch because people are gonna stop by, they're gonna sit with you, they're gonna ask if you have any extra coffee. Yeah. What are you listening to? Oh, I don't know this cold train. Oh, hold on one second. Let me, I mean, come on. New Orleans is the friendliest city on earth. I can tell you I love every one of my musician friends there. All of them. They're all just the kindest salt of the earth. Thing is, is like James Booker wasn't copying anybody else. He was just being James Booker. Professor Longhair wasn't copying anybody else, he was being Professor Longhair.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

So there's a lot of cats who I love and are my brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

There, they are reenactors, and that's fine. Yeah. And I'm glad they make so much money. But I have a different job here on Planet Earth. That's what we talked about from the beginning of this interview. Yep. For better or worse, I'm not a good reenactor. Maybe if I was, there'd be a tour bus in front of my home right now.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

It's your version of somebody. I do the same thing. If I play a song, it's my version of that song. It's not going to sound exactly like that person. I'm just not a good copycat.

SPEAKER_00 57:43

No. The music business loves copycats. Look, man, I just went back and re-listened to Dr. John's first record, Gree Gree.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

Holy shit. Nobody's ever made a record that sounded like that. Vibe for days. Oh my god, that record is terrifying. I mean, I had to smudge my house afterwards. Pretty sure like some shit came in. Like, that's my trip, is like New Orleans, you gotta like keep your head on the swivel because a lot of cats are playing tourist jazz.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

A lot of cats are reenactors. And I love all those cats. But like New Orleans is also incredibly supportive of brand new creative, innovative music. Yeah. And so that's my job there is to try to learn when I'm in the at the practice piano. I learn from Maestro Booker, Maestro Longhair, Dr. John. I learn from them. I try to study some of the harmonic things, but like what I'm trying, you know, it's like what I'm good at is making brand new art, brand new music. Yeah for better or worse. For better or worse, it's never been made before. Some people are great reenactors and they get on the cover of Downbeat and they have, you know, 5,000 people at every show. And then some people are innovators. And maybe we will be remembered after the fact, and maybe we won't. It's not my job to care. I just I keep trying to expand what I'm good at. Yep. Like, you know, after one gig, Johnny Vadakovich came up to me. He's like, he called, he's one of the only people who calls me Brian. He but he but he says it like this. He's like, he's like, he's like, Brian. Because he's a yet, so he says it differently. He's like, Brian. He's like, hey Brian, what city we in? Hey Brian! What time sound check? So after this one gig, he comes up to me, he's like, he's like, hey Brian, you need to go home and play Indiana and all 12 keys. And I was like, yeah. So I did. It wasn't easy, and I can tell you it was not fun. Right. But I am a student of the music. I will do whatever it takes to get better, including straight edge sobriety. And I I look, man, every time I go out, I listen to cats. I I I'm a big music fan. I don't care if they're if they're copycats and reenactors or they're total genius innovators. Look, I learn something from everybody. Yep. I'm from the Midwest, bro. I'm not proud. I'm I'm very humble, and I have something I can learn from everybody, including the reenactors who've just been playing the same cover songs the last 30 years, and they somehow win Grammys doing it. I can still learn something from them. I'll hear, oh, how did he do that left hand shit? Oh shit, that's that Dr. John shit. Dr. John was using two fingers in the left hand and two fingers in the right hand. That's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:43

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

Anything more than two in the left and two in the right? A buddy of mine studied with him, a great pianist from Mobile, Alabama. His name's Chris Speace. And Chris was like, oh, dude. I he tried, he said, What'd you do on the intro of that one song? I said, shit, dude, here's what I did. And Speace was like, nah, bro. Dr. John never used more than one or two fingers in each hand. What are you doing? Wow. What do you think this is? Like, you think you're McCoy or Herbie? Like, you don't need to do all that. It's just a couple fingers in each hand makes the fullest sound. It's all about choosing the right notes. Yeah. So the notes that matter, right? So, bro, I learned something from everybody. You know, but the New Orleans thing is a trip because a lot of the cats that make a lot of the money, they're in the they're in the business of of like reenactment. Right. And I'm I'm in a different business. So I respect them and I love them. Right. I'm grateful that New Orleans has enough love for all of us. I'm grateful New Orleans, New Orleans has enough love so that we can all pay rent together. So I'm just, to me, New Orleans is the live music capital of Earth. And I'm so grateful I get to spend eight months out of every year there. I pay full-time rent there, whether I'm there or not. And I pay full-time rent in Santa Fe, whether I'm here or not. I pay rent in two completely opposite places because, you know, I fucking love opposites. I'm a late, I'm a late Pisces, you know. I love extremes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

And I would say that of all the reenactment, reenactment that can be done, guys like you would be the hardest to reenact because of the way you evolve yourself. Seriously, like a guy like Booker. I've played Booker songs or Mose Allison. I've played Mose Allison's songs, but to play it like that, it's like it just sounds like Roosevelt Sykes. There's a song by Roosevelt Sykes called New York Boogie, where he's doing this left hand that is so fast, and his right hand he's comping, and he's just talking his way through Harlem and 140 seconds. And I'm listening, I'm like, if I just had to play the piano part, that would be enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

But to just talk over it, like Yeah, well, you know, Johnny Badakovich does this great version of You Are My Sunshine and sings his ass off on it, and James Singleton is playing the weirdest harmonies, and I just finally a few days ago wrote them all down. Because I'm like, these are not the chords to You Are My Sunshine. What the fuck is this? Well then I started texting Johnny about it, and Johnny's like, Brah. James didn't come up with those chords. Those are Moses' chords. Because you know, James and Johnny were Moses' rhythm section for years. Yeah. Mose got James out of Mississippi before he could go to prison. James woke up one morning and ate acid, just wandering around the hotel completely naked with a knife. Wow. And Moose called his friend, who was the sheriff of that county, and said, We need an escort out of here right now. And they got escorted to the Mississippi-Louisiana state line. Damn. So like James and Johnny took that version of You're My Sunshine from Moe's, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

So then of course I couldn't resist because I've been sitting at the fucking piano all day. I went down this Mo's wormhole. Yep. What? What? Like, what? Oh, you know, we were both produced by Joel Dorn. So I've got Mo's hanging up, his face is hanging up in my New Orleans house. Yep. But bro, the complexity and depth of his piano playing, mixed with his sense of humor, mixed with the lyrics and the compositions. Right. What an absolute outsider from every genre. You want to talk about having your own voice, having the balls to completely not fit in anywhere? Yep. Tell me what style of music Mose Allison is playing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Are you kidding me? It's just American music at a certain point, like the Crusaders. It's just American music.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

What is it? It's no genre ever. It's like this mashup of the darkest country, the fucking densest, deepest rock and roll, the most psychedelic jazz. It's like Mo'lison is a great example of what we're talking about when we say we came here to have our own voice, not to be re-enactors, not to be imitators. Like, holy shit, yeah, you can play a Mose Allison song, and that was what I was doing because I'd already written down his chords for You Are My Sunshine. Right. But dude, the way Moose was harmonizing that shit and stacking it so fearlessly, and then singing his ass off. Bro, it was just straight up, I have to go back to this. It sounded the chords and shit sounded like Bartok and Prokofiaf. I was like, how are you doing this in a jazz trio context at Newport and not getting like and not causing riots?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

And people think of, you know, when people think of Mo's, they think of him as that you are my sunshine, kind of like a genteel. But if you look, there's an album, 1982, live at Montreux called Lessons in Living. And of all the crazy bands, he had Lou Donaldson on sax, Eric Gale on guitar, Billy Cobb on drums, and Jack Bruce from Cream on bass. I don't know how you put a band like that together, but um it's it's Moe's Live at Montreux. Moe's Live at Montreux. I'll listen to it right when we get off the phone. Yeah, there's a song called Seventh Son. Um, I love that song. He does, I mean, he goes into a solo that, like, I didn't know he had it in him, kind of thing. Um, Seventh Son, and there's another song on there, but he goes into some solos, and you know, you got Billy Cobb and Jack Bruce, so I'm sure that amplified the proceedings, but I've never heard him do that, and I was like, all right, you know, what am I what else am I missing with this guy?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Well, bro, he's playing all these octaves with all this stride piano, completely fucking with the bass player, making the bassist do something brand new. I mean, Mo's has so much in common with Earl Hines when I was going back and listening to all this stuff, yeah, because it's so nasty and filthy. Like, yeah, it does not sound like these motherfuckers are taking a shower every day. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:43

And I feel like guys, guys like Earl Father Hines, uh, you know, these guys, they're not lost. Any piano player can find their music, you know, UB Blake or whoever, and they had their importance in the day, but it's weird to think of these people as just like unless you know, you don't know, you know? Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Because yeah, because Louis Armstrong, hot fives, hot sevens. Right, there's no bassist. Who's playing bass? Earl Hines. He's doing it with his left hand with octaves with stride piano. And I'm telling you, you would just sit there and listen to that shit. It's so modern. He was doing that in the 20s and 30s, bro. Yeah, so modern it could have been done this morning. You listen to the voice leading and the harmonic, the harmonic mashing and character that like Earl's coming up with, as he's just acting in a support role. Right. He's just supporting the call and response of the horns and Lewis and this magic and the soloists. Very quick solos. Each solo is like eight bars. And and dude, Earl is only really in deep support mode for the hot fives and the hot sevens.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Fuck, bro. Some of the best piano playing I've ever heard in my life.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

And those recordings obviously are are very early, so you it's not like these clear recordings where the piano is sitting right there. You kind of gotta tune it in, you know? Oh my god, bro, his stride piano. Ridiculous. I mean, guys who came from stride, Count Basie or whatever, didn't always use it in their career. Yeah, you know, it's it's there. You know? So I practice it every day. Yeah, well, I I sit I practice blues and boogie every day to keep those chops up because it is kind of like a a static idiom in a way, like you to you know, the patterns of blues and the patterns of boogie. And I still try to innovate within that a little bit, but I also feel like I have to keep up the generic patterns of it just to keep them under my fingers, because I even though it's not necessarily in all my music, I want to be able to turn and play blues and boogie straight and have it be at least my take on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

Yeah. Yeah, you have a very unique take on all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Yeah. Uh I love I love chatting with you about piano playing and piano players and music. I could do it all day. I know we're probably over the time limit, but um What's our time limit, Bubba? Oh, we don't really have a time limit. We can go for hours and hours, but um, I just don't I we know we gotta we gotta keep it nice and tight.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

We we can do another one in a couple months or next year or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

I'd love that. Or maybe at some point I'll you know find you in a next to uh uh each other at a piano and we can really get into the nitty-gritty. But um I love you, man, and I I love your journey. I'm really happy with your uh newfound sobriety and your your love for life. So uh I'm excited for all the music to come. You're just getting started.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Yeah, if it's people who aren't super aware of my work, um I highly recommend checking out the new Nola Ted album.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

You can it's called Something to Relax With. Love it. It's uh on every streaming platform or you can buy the vinyl.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

Um and with Jacob Fred, what would you say if somebody wanted to dip into Jacob Fred walking with giants, or what would be uh just just listen to Winterwood?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

Great album. You know, just go to just go to Apple Music or Spotify. There's like, you know, we just finished our 30th album. Yeah, we're currently shopping it. So there's you know, when it comes to Jacob Fred, just go to the streaming platforms and if there's something you don't you're listening, you don't like, hit next because the next thing is gonna be completely different.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

Let me actually tag on tag on to this conversation. Since you just reunited with Jason and Reed, how has that been? Because to take a break from people that you were like symbiotically mind melding with and then go your separate ways, get into separate things. Reed's playing guitar and stuff to come back together, yeah, has it felt like a continuation or does it feel like a new something?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

It's very much a new thing, and you know, clubs like to always call it a reunion to make sure it sells out. But but my last gig with Combs and Raymer and Jacob Fred was like 2015. Wow. And then that next year, myself, Reed, and Jason started playing together.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

So we've so we've been playing together for 10 years. Okay. Even though when you see the hype from the club that we say, Jacob Fred Reunion, OG trio, I'm like, eh, it's kind of true. But like, you know, we did two nights in New Orleans four years ago, we did three nights in the Bay Area seven years ago. Like we're not consistent. Yeah. And and like, you know, Reed and Jason are two of my greatest musical companions. I mean, Jason is blowing our minds. Awesome. He sounds like every Jacob Fred drummer that's ever come before him, plus himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

I mean, Raymer is such a unique cat. That the stuff that he does is his own realm.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:32

Jason is playing way beyond any of that, in my opinion. He's like taking all the Raymer stuff, all the stuff he's learned from Brian Blade, and from seeing the Wayne Shorter quartet five times, and all the stuff he's learned from Badakovich. I mean, Jason has absolutely become and becoming one of the greatest drummers alive. I love that. And I mean, it is absolutely terrifying. And dude, he's writing our best material.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

Jason is writing our best new material. A lot of people's favorite new Jacob Fred songs are Jay Smart songs. Wow. That's amazing. Reed and I are great composers. We're writing great shit. But it really is interesting the feedback I'll get after shows. People be like, what was that song you ended the first set with? That's the best Jacob Fred song ever. It's like Vernal Equinox and Thelonious Monk is my grandmother, and all your best songs rolled into one. I'm like, that's a Jason Smart song. What does he write on besides does he play piano? Does he Nord. He writes on a Nord piano. All right. And then writes it down with pencil to paper.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

Years ago, you were in LA and you did a live-to-disc recording in Giltamasian studio. Yeah. I would love to hear that. I it's he's got it. You guys, you I mean, I know that iteration of the band doesn't exist, but we should put that out. I would love to hear that because I remember being in the moment and watching you guys do that, and it was incredible.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

And then it's like the funny thing is Jacob Red's about to put out our 30th album, and we have 10 albums that will never see the light of day.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

Why?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

Well, you know, Blue Note paid for a trio album in in 2001. And it was Me Reed and Joe Russo. Wow. And they they paid for it, put us in the studio, gave us a little advance to make it, and then they heard it. And they were like, We are not putting this out.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Maybe now that Don Waz is in there, he'll have a different opinion, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:24

You'd think, but you know, I think his hands are tied in a lot of ways by by just the by like corporate malfeasance by the nature of capitalism. But like, you know, Blue Note paid for that record in 2000, 2001. They thought they were gonna get some West Coast Boogaloo Soul Life type of shit. And what they got was like Coltrane and Cecil Taylor giving each other hand jobs.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

That's what they should. Well, listen, I hope all of the music not yet out gets out because I think people need to hear it all. I really do. I just there's so much great stuff, and no one's gonna hear it on a hard drive, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:00

So you're keeping him. We have so much unreleased shit, it's amazing. If somebody gave me a grant, I mean, dude, I've got four Brian Haas albums that are just sitting in a New Orleans studio under the tit under the name Love Amalgam that are completely unreleased. I just don't know. I just need to like set aside some money or use these credit cards and just buckle down and make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

It's I mean, just to put it out on a streaming service doesn't really cost that much. To promote it, yes, to tour it or anything like that, but just to make it available.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

Yeah. You know? Let me I'm gonna call Calibro right when you and I get off the phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:37

Yeah, tell him I said hello. I will, because there's so much unreleased shit. I mean, why it's like why not? Because if any one of those catches fire or any one of the just there's somebody out there right now who needs that music, they need to hear it in their life.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

I agree with you. Thank you for the thank you for the reminder. I'm so glad it's you. I would put it out, I would put it, I would put it out just if I could get the guarantee you were gonna listen to it. That's enough. Dude, I'm right here waiting.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

I am literally sitting here waiting for it. So listen, here's to new music, here's to release all the old music, and uh getting together sometime soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:10

Amen, man. I love you, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:13

I love you too. I'm gonna stop the recording here, but thank you for joining me. Yeah, yeah. Stay on for a second. I have a couple questions for you. Yes, definitely.